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Episode 78: Cum Races, Ideal Tinder Profiles, Women Tolerating Male Fetishes, Going Down

Team YMMV | 8-4-2022 | 1:00:27

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Alyssa and Keith discuss a wide range of topics, starting off with Alyssa recanting, or perhaps just recasting, some of her earlier statements on the program. Don't worry, Keith still maintains that he's a classy gentleman.

Some discussion of how to construct an effective Tinder profile, and general dating advice in that area.

Then on to the big question of the day: Why do women so easily tolerate men's fetishistic behavior, whether it's wanting to direct their semen in various seemingly unnatural places or the like. Do women actually want facials or to be nutted upon?

And, who wins the cum race?

There was no porn discussed in this episode, but here is one of a woman giving a somewhat odd blowjob (particularly the end) just to help you out:

https://ymmv.me/78/odd-bj

We get a lot of our questions from Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/78/facial

https://ymmv.me/78/going-down

https://ymmv.me/78/racing

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [00:00] Keith and Alyssa: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is controversial but usually in good faith and Keith my co-host is Mike but he is unavailable again. So here to pick up the slack is returning champion Alyssa welcome Back Alyssa thanks for having me back? Yeah now. Understand you have some things you want to get off your chest about our last episode but before we do that perhaps we should say where we are so we are currently in a very sexy suite in North Macedonia right and I think this is the none time this podcast has. Availed me a privilege we were checking in here and they put us in the wrong small room and while I was throwing my tantrum downstairs I mentioned that we wanted the larger room that I had booked because we needed some space because we were recording a podcast. Think the hotel owner assumed that we're recording a podcast about hotels or something it was. It was just amazing because you had the microphone in your handing you're kind of waving it about right? Yeah, so she was really worried disappointed us. Put us in this suite here. The suite is preposterous. It has 2 bathrooms and it's insane. It's very sexy. It's what I imagine like a 19 year old imagines a bachelor pad is this couch that you're sitting on its black leather. Yeah, we have. There's like red candlesticks everywhere. Yeah feathered lamp shades. It's ridiculous. So anyway, yeah, hopefully the perks keep coming and okay, why are we qualified to talk about sex and relationships. Well I guess I wouldn't say that I'm necessarily qualified I'm not licensed or certified and by any means but I am a. Young lady who has had sex and has been in relationships. So I guess listen to me None yeah or not yeah up to you. You do you for our listeners who don't know a listen I have been going out dating what are we. Boyfriend girlfriend. What are we Keith? We're know like what is a couple that is not engaged but fairly serious about each other. What the young people say going steady. Oh yeah, yeah, and we are. We are allegedly in an open relationship. Although neither one of us has. Ah, cash that check in. But right yet right? Okay, maybe that'll maybe'll have a couple later. We'll see when that happens all right make for a good episode introduction complete oh with the none time one of us sleeps with someone else. Yeah, it makes would be a good ah little interviews that segment huh. Yeah, you should help me do that. Just so that we can have some good content.
  • [02:46] Keith and Alyssa: Yeah I have ideas on how I can manage your tinder your tinder account or whatever it is your ah your platform of choice. Okay, all right? Well maybe okay, well all right? So introductions complete. It's been a while since I did the usual podcast begging. So I'm going to do it today. Please rate review subscribe to and tell your friends about the show. We're always desperate for feedback and to reward those that provide us feedback. We pay $10 for any feedback we receive you can contact us at y m m b pod at http://gml.com or at Ymndpod on Twitter. We prefer negative feedback since that's the most actionable. But if you want to praise us, we'll allow it. We also enjoy answering questions from our listeners some of which we'll get to today. SoYMMvPod at http://gmail.com and at ymvy and and the pod on Twitter are your places to do that. All right? Alissa you were squirming about some things you said. And our last episode. Ah, okay, so yes I did want to do a little bit of housekeeping from the last episode that I did ah with the pod with you guys or with you. Um I was like because we listened to it I think the morning after. Yeah, and I realized that in my mind because we were sitting there drinking beer and I was in my bikini having a wonderful time but I didn't realize how just absolutely like smammered I was I was just you get my list was kind of coming out like he goes wonderful. But I was so drunk I can do slurry far worse than. Were not yeah that particularly being yeah but it's just yeah, just nothing quite breaks the veneer of how you see yourself until you listen to yourself on yeah, it could be painful. You know on audio or you watch yourself in a video and I was just you know I thought I was killing it like sometime I think I'm so funny. But then when I I think I'm hilarious. But then when I like hear myself like listening back I'm like oh my gosh I'm actually my sense of humor is not that great, but and something's just wart-hitting. But anyway I just wanted to clear the air about a few things and um, that yeah, my sense of humor was a bit there but also um I realize. Never really specified why the none time that we had sex together was kind of weird. We just kind of talked about and and like alluded over it. But we never really quite said what happened I don't know why was the first that we had sex kind of weird What are you talking about I thought it was delightful. Yeah, what? whatever we remember of it. So um, the none time we ever had sex I think this was on our None date and we hadn't got it was really weird because we went to some weird barbecue place and we got yeah like it was deep in like covid shutdown. Yeah and place was open that place was open and we got just basically like a mountain of brisket.
  • [05:27] Keith and Alyssa: And we were sitting down chatting and I was impressed by the way with your ordering with all the prisca that I yeah yeah I don't know what I was thinking going on a None date trying to get some meat sweats but we just were sitting down and I think between the 2 of us. We both basically like I want to say drink like like the equivalent of None bottles of wine each. Oh. Think it was I don't know I just remember standing up and I was just like I don't remember a single thing after that and not right mother thought not really I remember it but it was just funny because I remember coming back to that bar like months later and the bartender was like hey like um I remember you and I think he had thought that I thought he thought of someone else. And I was like oh no, you don't he's like no you were here with that guy and like man you guys were just breaking a bunch white. Why know this was months late I never like go dad spot ever and I like oh my god depression. Yeah yeah, he was just like how weird these people are just drinking a bunch of chardonnay and like a pile of brisket. yeah but um yeah I think it was um it was it was odd for the 2 of us because it was just so out of character to um I think have set like you know like have like a none sexual encounter like that and I think we both were just super embarrassed the morning after I think I never us just being like both like contacting each other and just like kind of. Pereverating on it the entire day and be like yeah I'm so sorry but we don't do it I felt like because of the inebriation. Well a few things happened I mean the first is we we stayed at your place and normally. Would try to make myself scarce after a none sexual encounter because I don't know if the person wants me to spend the night or not but because it was late and I'd had a bit to drink I think I was just pretty tired so I stayed and so I think I was a bit embarrassed. About that I didn't mean to impose myself on you in that way and then I didn't because we've been drinking a bit I wasn't sure if you were fully on board I mean I okay, that's that's putting it a little bit strongly I knew you wanted. You were comfortable. Sex with me but I didn't know if I don't know I don't know if if you felt embarrassed or or badly about things and and I didn't like that and so I think when I touch base with you the next day I mention some of those things. Yeah I think we we both did I think we both were kind of relieved that the other one was also just kind of fretting about and and embarrassed because it's it was both very out of character for the None of us to kind of go in like that.
  • [08:08] Keith and Alyssa: And I was super embarrassed because the next day I had work and you had to go to the train station and you basically had to watch me do my weird morning routine was just sitting there eating my yogurt and trying to do like my 10 minute meditation I was like ah yeah, it was weird being there in such a. Yeah, such a pedestrian moment. but yeah but I think it it was funny because I think after we kind of touched face afterwards we talked a little bit about it and we laughed about it and then we made up for having a really nice, really romantic. Fourth date. What do we do for the None date. Oh I cooked for you, you' cooked for me. Yeah, in your apartment. You know you brought out the ah the pasta maker and the ah yeah I made past and the sobean machine. Yeah sweet. Yeah I touch all right I redeemed myself. Yeah because it was a drilling on you while I was trying to like make out with you for the none so Cale's think Ruston stink like ah brisket this time it was just pasta. Yeah, okay, well let's okay, can we get back to this ah you have ideas about how to help manage my tinder profile. Oh yes, so. I think I saw your tinder profile when I was swiping on tinder before and I got really excited and I think I screenshot and sent it to you and I think we had a really long conversation about um, your photos and why we chose why you chose them and the little snippets you put in there about yourself and I think. You're opening one-liners and I think I can help with that. Okay because I know that you're trying to weed out certain people and also um I guess say things about yourself without you know, being like without saying things about yourself I guess even being very subtle my general strategy in dating profiles is to cast. As wide a net as possible I agree so I and everyone I would love to have a profile I don't know if the listeners can hear but the house cleaners are singing in macedonian outside our room they're cleaning a a neighbor of room sopologies it slaps or maybe. Maybe it's fun that in the background. Anyway, yeah I try to cast as wide a it as possible because I don't want to exclude any potential matches and I would love to be able to be super restrictive. And say I only want women between none who have these fisherments and who are interested in and Nba basketball ah Eastern european world affairs and you know whatever I would love to to do that. But in my experience. It's hard enough to get matches.
  • [10:52] Keith and Alyssa: Even when I cast as wide and net as possible and so my profiles are always curated to sound in a way that I think sounds interesting and compelling and wouldn't turn anybody off. So for example I would never mention anything about politics on there even though I think dating people of a certain. Political persuasion would be intolerable, but okay, so that's my that's my general strategy and then I try to also do various things with my photos. So I you know I have a photo of traveling someplace I have a photo where it looks like I'm at like a dinner party. So it's sort of establishing that I'm normal and and have friends I have a photo of me with my shirt off I think my my dad is in that photo. So it's not as vain I know that photo it's not as vain as a typical ah you know shirtless photo might look It's cute because I'm with my dad. I have a photo where I'm in a tuxedo at a wedding but the photo is sort of casually taken I'm sitting in front of somebody and they were taking my picture from behind and it like sort of turned with my elbow around the chair and so the whole thing is curated in such a way to cast as wide a net as possible. So. Does that strategy seem to for photos seem to me. No that no your strategy for photos is fantastic I never said it wasn't I mean they're all great photos I mean it definitely deviates from um the sea of you of men holding up a fish or petting a tiger or the puppy as their wing man right? So I mean I think they're all. Wonderfully curated photos for sure. Um I wonder if I like I just I wonder if like I deployed my tactic of speaking to people just because coming from you know, just the other demographic or the other side so like a millennial woman. You know if you would. Hit more right? like you would get more hits because the thing is once it's it's the get they like getting to the dating part right? because like once you're on a date. It's like I know you're solid. It's just like you're charming. You're handsome, you're knowledgeable. You're funny. That's right? all but all those all the things you know? So yeah, so it's once you're on the date. It's. You're solid, but it's just getting to that first day like I think just kind of just being able to not disarm people but getting people to be like okay this is someone I'll actually you know go put my eyelashes on for you know what? I mean like I'll go outside for you know? Yeah, okay, well all right here's what the text is it says let me take you out to dinner or for a drink. Um, amusing and won't pressure you into any nonsense warning I'll likely invite you out tonight. Avid flosser distance runner cookie baker whiskey drinker podcast hoster occasional model and adventure idea hever. Six feet tall and then I have a link to my Instagram good Instagram's awesome I don't like having to say.
  • [13:42] Keith and Alyssa: Height. But I know that's important I think that's important to to more women than ah irritating it is to some women so some women don't like people flexing their height Six six feet tall isn't really that much of a flex. But. I am a legit six feet maybe six foot none I have I agree. No I die my hair. No I absolutely agree that you're right that it's good to put it on there versus it's not It's not going to turn off as many people as it would turn away people being like yeah I just don't like I don't know but you know that's the thought. And then I have my Instagram a link to my Instagram which I think that could be problematic these days because if people look at my Instagram they're going to see lots of content of you. So yeah, importantly, I don't say anything about. And um or having a girlfriend radical non-monogamy but I haven't really been using these apps since we started dating? Yeah especially not in the last you know 6 to 10 months and so I'm not actually sure if I was using these aggressively. What kind of. Match frequency I would be getting just some listeners may not know this tinder doesn't show you to people unless you're using tinder itself. So like why should they show you to other people and have them like you if you're not going to log into the app for a year that is just going to end up with. The experience for the people who have liked you is feeling empty because they won't be getting matches and so in order to get matches on tinder or in order to get likes on tinder. You need to be using tinder and there's probably some ceiling and there's probably some diminion returns like you probably can't get more than x likes in a day I don't know exactly how. Formula works but because I'm not using it I haven't been getting basically any likes. Yeah I mean I just I actually just got an email like a little petty email from tinder to saying we're gonna hide your profile because you're yeah yeah, they um, tinder's ghosting me now isis a a a top choice or what does it call on tinder that people. Are I don't know they know who the most beautiful people are because hold that I had not yet people I guess I enjoyed it there? Yeah yeah, so tinder I'll take it like you. You've never paid for tinder right? or have no nor tinder if you pay for tinder. There's this area called I don't even know what it is but ah top choices or something and you could go to that tab and it'll show you these people are all just like absurdly hot and their profiles seem really interesting and all this kind of stuff but I suspect.
  • [16:28] Keith and Alyssa: And the way they do that is they don't have an editorial board going through those and I presume. It's just that they can tell what percentage of people like you and based on that they can make some guesses about your attractiveness. They also know the attractiveness of the people liking you and so. If somebody's getting liked at a super high rate by super high attractive. The highly attractive people then they can make some inferences about that that person themselves. Yeah I don't think my profile is very interesting. Um, it's really It's really fun getting to hear and see um the mail perspective on dating like on dating websites and like how. You know you have to put so certain amount of information but not too much information and like having perfectly curate like photos and such because a female experience is that I literally don't have to put out forth a single I yeah expert. You know this? Yeah, it doesn't matter what you say in your oh yeah, not it gives a shit know and gives its just like they look at your pictures and they're like you know. Looking for a certain ratio and they've decided within 50 milliseconds whether they want to fuck, you actually let me. That's the only thing oh no, that's the only thing that matters. Oh I know. but yeah, but yeah this is this is a profile review for myself. So yeah, all right? So I said you know let me take you out to dinner or for a drink I'm amusing and won't pressure you into any nonsense warning a likely invite you out tonight. The reason why I say that is I'm trying to lay the foundation for I'll say like a couple like if I match with someone I'll say a couple I'll try to say something mildly witty and in response to one of their pictures or some prompt they have in their profile and then. If they respond I may say None more thing but after that I like to say let's meet we can meet for a coffee or a dinner or a drink or a walk or whatever, whatever your speed is let me know if you're interested in what neighborhood and I'll suggest some places so I'm doing that to just. Remove all pressure from them. Also if we're in San Francisco where we live I know the area pretty well so I can sort of give some options that I think could be fun. Yeah, that might maybe seem interesting to a person but by the time I've gotten to having 2 None or None messages from them. They're probably a 90% close anyway and so that part doesn't matter I think the only part that matters is what can somebody say in their profile that can be more inclusive than my current text and I don't know what that might be do. You have any suggestions the None can suggest right now is I don't know why the I won't pressure you into any nonsense just kind of is the only thing that I think where I have like I'm kind of like oh I'm you know that I feel a little bit of apprehension to it. That's and I think as I understand what you're trying to say understand that. Yeah, it's like you know you you'll go on a date with somebody and they'll either. Yeah, you just don't.
  • [19:19] Keith and Alyssa: Know what could possibly happen im not there. Awkwardly yeah like but I'm not going to put them in a position where they feel pressured to come home with me at the end of the day exactly a lot of men do that and so I'm trying to signal that I'm not going to be yeah, maybe saying I'm not going to do that. But it's it's just like saying like well I'm not a murderer you know. Right? They're like I didn't ask if you were yeah exactly think you might as well say like I promise I'm not to axe murder. It's like you wouldn't put that on a profile you know and it's like I understand where like what you're trying to say but as I don't know why and I'm trying to intersect more onto it. But that's like the only thing I could think I'm like ooh that's I have a bit of apprehension there. That's useful, feedback. Yeah'll I'll workshop. Leather It's insane like I promise I don't have a well in my basement I'm not going to wear your skin. Are you a size 6 ah, right? right? Okay, all right? but everything else is like it's super wholesome and sweet and I think is it too wholesome and sweet like I don't want to exclude people who are looking for something casual, casual. In fact I want to put up some sort of like that sign for people who are looking for something casual. It does seem a bit wholesome and I don't there's nothing that you say in your profile that really reaches for that like you're like I'm just here for you know like this and that but I don't I'm trying to think of a way where you can say it if I said I'm looking for something casual. That's gonna immediately eliminate None no, that's why I'm saying don't don't say do you don't say that but what's. What is the Goldilock Zone yeah you know these like you know, um, you could you could always say something like um I don't you know, no expectations I'm always open I'm always open for cool friends because that that implies that implies you know, yeah, cool friendships because friendships could be anything yeah and any. I think a girl who's looking for something serious would next me? Well if you say she saw something like that. No if you you can say you don't just say it's not like saying I'm only looking for anything casual but you can preface it by saying um, no stress I don't have any expectations I just you don't want to meet some cool people. And if we come out of this is that doesn't sound cliche like but I feel like if I saw that on a profile b you could be a little bit cliche it's fine I mean like it's it's either you put like a dog photo up or you say something a little bit like catchy like that. Oh do I have a picture of my mom's dog on here I don't on my tinder I do on other dating profile. You do have it on and it's that was a. That was a grabber for me I think I did mention I was like what's your dog's name. Yeah I'm a sucker I'm sorry I'm um, ah um, a basic bit. You know like I love I love a good dog photo. My mom had a a yellow lab and there I had a picture of me with like the Christmas tree lights in the background and I'm like snuggling with my mom.
  • [21:54] Keith and Alyssa: Um, to augusts. oh yeah oh and I had a beard you yeah it was it's a good it's a really it's a really good photo of you all right? Maybe it' I don't know it's it's it's only August though I don't know if I want to add that to It's a little you, you're worried about this? Yeah it seasonibility of like photos. Ah. Like photos a photo of you holding a baby with them. Bunny ears on for easter right? It's just kind of like eluding like is he religious I don't know yeah, all right? Let's move on to a listener question. Okay, um, let's see oh man. This one got deleted. That's too bad stupid. It's really a bummer when people ask something and then based on the response on Reddit they get sort of nervous and remove it oh cause I mean. Who wants to get dragged sometimes people don't even make a thoroughway account and they're just getting dragged. No but like goped by the internet post thought I'm ready in the none place the whole the whole dream of posting something I'm read is for it to go viral desperation I don't really know? Yeah anyway, all right? This person says. Why do men love coming on their partner's face or stomach even I do but I've never understood the exact reason some say it's because we get a sense of ownership over her body I feel like that's kind of true. It does feel like I'm marking my territory or something even my girl loves it saying that it's something that makes her feel like she belongs to me is this true What are your reasons for doing this right? I know where this is leading well what where do you think this is leading okay, well first let's start off what to men. And like a lot of men will just say no I just like really love it. You know like I just love the submissiveness of it but like what is it to men where they want to come everywhere on a woman I don't have that like impulse I think well yo I don't yeah no, you know you don't you don't and like you're you are. You're an anomaly for sure. But I think for can you introspect I'm like why more men. Most men. Yeah, would yes I can I think that it can be hot to demean the person that you're having sex with I just don't understand why any woman who is with someone they care about wouldn't feel demeaned by it. But that's I thought. Like like I like I said before um, that like if some dude is like I want to leave a sloppy mess on your face and you know she funny.
  • [24:25] Keith and Alyssa: Ah, it just turns me on so much to give you a facial I feel like they're basically revealing that they don't think much of you I don't think that's the case. Okay, no like I said it's like that discuss you know that discuss Reflex. It's like it's the bar is lowered when you're having sex with somebody else right? Um, and I think you could say. You can kind of like encompass in all like in all other aspects of things that could be considered submissive or demeaning. Um, you know like like say choke play I'm a bit of rough sex. Um, you know dirty talking name callinging things like that right? you can kind of encompass it into this like little category of things that are debasing to women and you know on a day-to day basis like I wouldn't. You know, want to go into the office and someone would come in my face like I don't want that on my day-to day basis but in a sexual encounter with someone where I'm aroused and I'm having a good time. It's with someone that you know we've had some microconen beforehand then yeah, absolutely, That's fine and it doesn't and it's doesn't make me feel less than. Why? Okay in your mind what are rational non-demeaning reasons that a man has such a desire to make a mess on you pornography. Think but so I mean besides it being this sense of ownership. Um, this sense of submission and like dominance. Yeah I think a lot of young men tend to think that's something they have to do or they want because it's hot because I think when you if you watch Porn. It's either a cream pie right. Or they're just like there's just come everywhere like in every single surface. You know? yeah and it's never like you never watch a porn where like they just like slip out. They just come on. Someone's Stomach. You never see that it's just the money shot or cream bye. Yeah,, there's lots of there's facials and. Coming on tits all the time in porn. But I think that's performance art I think that supports my theory that it's demeaning to the woman and I think it's like a turn on in porn because it's sort of yeah, it's Demeaning. It's demeaning to the to the person receiving. Facial or what is is there ah is there a euphemism for pearl. Not Someone's just a pearl necklace I like that term It's really cute. Sounds like a like something for a child. But oh no, yeah, no, it's awful. Ah, um, no I always. Think that a lot of young, especially like young men now that are like kind of getting into finding their sexuality and exploring and they get a lot of their education from Pornography. Um I think with the internet Now you can just like you can find anything you can literally find anything on the internet. No I know and but okay, are you and that's.
  • [27:13] Keith and Alyssa: Look at either education from it's like you know you're not just like fumbling and you know you're not just like fumbling around with somebody and like just trying to figure figure things out when you're you know when you're like late teens early 20 s yeah, but's like you're learning this all from like pornhab. Yeah, but it's not like. I don't think I learn things that turn me on from porn I think things can get normalized because of porn. Oh absolutely. So this thing where there is like none play and there's penetration and the porn star orgasms within 45 seconds those things people learn from porn and think are normal and may expect that in their sexual encounters. But I don't think people learn what feels good or what desires they have from porn as much. Maybe maybe in some circumstances and circumstance. But the notion the notion that like men are seeing. Ah, bunch of facials delivered on porn and they wouldn't have thought of it if it weren't for porn and because they've seen so many facials in porn now they like really like facials whereas otherwise they wouldn't I don't think that no sense I'm wondering if what's what's happening here is people are affecting like arousal from it. Iss kind of like um, how. Eating ass became very popular. It wasn't just like out of nowhere. Everyone was like oh this is the thing. No one's ever tried this before and now everyone's tried it right? it it kind of became this meme and I think a lot of people started to affect in a way where they like oh no like I really really love this even if they weren't they weren't necessarily super turned on by it but it was one of those. Those those like things like sexual things that you can do that you were fine with you know, like you weren't turned off or disgusted by it but it wasn't something it was like this huge turn on like aren for you. You know there's just I think maybe a lot of people are affecting it as something as they should be aroused by it. Even if they're probably not and this comes and. Comes like with age and experience too like being able to get older and be like actually you know like I'm out into that and that's totally fine. There's nothing wrong with like not being into something you know it's like you're not like it's not like you're not the cool kid in school or the uncle kid in school I guess I think men actually do like making a mess. Out of the woman I think there's but do men like getting their ass eight I don't know I don't but I don't think that the point I'm making is that the that the analogy that because there's a rise in enolingus because culturally, it's it's considered. More acceptable or culturally it's mentioned more I do think that I do think that's happening. But I think facials are have been going on for time immemorial and ah the reason why men like them is.
  • [29:59] Keith and Alyssa: Because it's a visual representation of ownership or dominance over the woman and I get why this person ah well okay so this person is is a woman. She's like why do men love coming on their partner's face. No actually sorry it's a man. He's like even I do but I've never understood the exact exact reason I think yeah I think it's because it makes you feel alpha or dominance and that's fine I just don't. With so many things with sex these things where like the man is positioned as the alpha and the woman is positioned as the extreme submissive beta I don't understand why so many women are liking that kind of thing so I have the same confusion about women who claim they love to give blowjobs. Have this confusion about women who are like oh I just love it when it comes on my face right? It's like I don't I think it's signaling something obviously negative about the way the man feels about the woman and in the best possible scenario. It's only in the bedroom but come on. It. It seems unlikely that that's not leaking into other parts of their thought pattern and so I don't understand why people are so comfortable with it women are so comfortable with with I understand why men want it. They're like this is awesome. Look what I've done look what I look what I've what look what I made look at this mask look at this person who subjugated to me look at. Look at how im imposing myself on them I can understand that being hot I don't think it's that hot because I often care deeply for the person that I'm sleeping with and and I you know like it's just strange to do this thing that demeans them. And then be like and then cordon that off and say oh this is only in the bedroom I really care about how your career is going and I want to think your opinions are just as important as mine except in the bedroom. Yeah I want to like you know tie you down have you eat my ass. And then I'm going to come on your face and walk away like it's I think it's it's more It's still. It's more nuanced than that though and I I is more to and I in extremely character charactericatureized case here. No I understand it and it's the none perspective generally where my world view on this. My confusion about this stuff. No I can understand your perspective but on it and I think in my own so for my own personal interest in it. Um for me and like I said my turn on is my partner's turn on right? If it's something my partner's into I'm not and it's not a strong new for me. Yes, a None this is something this something Mike always says like this you enjoy going down on your part.
  • [32:40] Keith and Alyssa: So why can't you flip that around and imagine somebody else enjoyed giving use of yes I'm sure. Yeah and I can understand like the the opposite way be like well I can't I can't separate um this submissive view of you while also seeing you as like this unpartner so it's kind of this like Hormadonna complex right? Um I think. People tend to forget that sex is kind of like a it's a form of escapism right? Um, you're meant to like release inhibitions like you know who I am say at the office or the clinic or whatever um is not who I have to be in the bedroom. You know it's like watching scary movies. You know, um, it's watching movies um playing video games. Whatever. These are forms of escapism to kind of get you away from your day-to-day life. You know so it's not like when's because I watch scary movies I'm a murderer right? or like I'm into gore I'm into pain or I'm into you know like I'm not I'm forgeting social social powder. It's just watching something that makes me feel a certain way and escapeates me from my daily life. I think that's also goes in hand in hand with like you know say like sexual activity with people you know like you're release inhibitions like you're um, trying not new things and like you're kind of just you know, bringing yourself to this like other edge where it's you can't do that your day-to-day life. It's just like you know like where are you getting where are you getting your titty sucked on like your day today life right? yeah. And so I think yeah like there is a difference like you're able to kind of have like these different like plateaus you know for their relationship like there's like the romantic partner There's your um, sexual partner There's like this like dominance and missions. Whatever it may be on either side. There's the friendship aspect. You know these are all like different areas that make up a relationship in a. And you know and so and cut all into like None like little box and saying like well if you're outside of this box and like I can't respect you because of it. It's that's really just kind of like putting like a tight line on everything when it's so much more nuanced than that I think I hear you I think the general. Notion of what you're saying here is sex and desires in the sexual realm should be considered 100% isolated from desires and needs and wants in other arenas in life. And I think that basically has to be the case in order for you know, very like if that is not 100% the case then feminism is complete garbage right? Like if it's if it's true that Ninety X percent of women are super submissive in them. Bedroom and if bedroom behavior is even some tiny amount correlated to real life. Then yeah like that causes all kinds of problems with all kinds of societal issues and so all right I guess.
  • [35:27] Keith and Alyssa: I'll pretend for a moment like sex has nothing to do with anything else in life. But yeah I think if people thought about that carefully they would see that the logical conclusion here is a bit icky and I think my confusion about this is is normal and everyone else pretending like this is totally fine and. There's no inconsistencies here and it's weird. That's I and I understand it and my conclusion over like just my I guess answer to the whole thing is that it's so subjective it really is. It's kind of like um how people perceive offense. It's None thing that could possibly offend. You wouldn't offend me at all and vice versa. Um, and so for me to say like this is the way my worldview is it's right. It isn't for everyone else, you know Um and I know that's a really vague and kind of like lamey answer. It's not like answering anything is just kind of saying like well to each their own you know, but it really it really is what it is. It is what it is yeah but yeah, no I understand like trying to introspect on that like. What is the deeper meaning be like behind that you know is it is it feminist to want to get like your as doing things like yeah or is it. It anti-feminist. Yeah exactly right? Yeah, you know like I think there's there's there's a good question to be had there for sure. But I so I understand your confusion but like I said I think it's definitely a little bit more nuance than that you know my you know my point of view on it. Yeah, yeah, okay, let's move on. Okay, okay, this person says you puss you pussy eating men a question. Actually this none is you pussy eating loving men a question pussy eating loving man I'm not going to worry about this the ground or something. How do I make my man 1 l lo l it feels like I'm almost always doing something wrong. But I've literally made it the easiest possible for him to want me to eat me out. He will play with me a little and go down on me for literally 10 seconds sometimes before sex. But that's it I'm very hygienic. He's probably just trying to get her lubricated. Yeah, ah. Very hygienic shower every day and I always use wipes to stay clean. Mike has an issue with wipes he doesn't like the the the taste. The alcoholly residue. Well they they do. They do have feminine wipes I don't have that alcohol residue on them. so yeah so I mean I used to make it taste like honey when I was younger I read in a. Guide somewhere that you should have feminine wipes near your toilet and so that when you invite women back to your apartment. They can see that and if and if they so choose they can use it to like if they feel insecure about you. Let's say you've you've been on a date. It's been like a few hours. What what man wrote this article. What. And you knowt this is a good idea you what you wouldn't feel such going over to somebody else's somebody's house first. So presumpt. She was also rude now like I would be like that. It's there that you sometimes you like to keep your asshole I would I would have so many questions about it.
  • [38:14] Keith and Alyssa: Like yeah and so I would I like they don't have to be there. There are nongender wipes if I came into like a got a bachelor pad where this guy has like toothpaste in the sink like beard shaving iss like caught like over the sink and stuff and like dirty towels and then I see like a box of feminine wipes above his toilet I'm gonna be okay, none of all. Is his is this his girlfriends. No this is a Mary Alis this is this wrong does he live with his sister. No number none off, my bathroom is inacate second ah that we can see they wouldn't be female wis it would be can't you get can't you I know you can you can get get Huggies. You can get what are the wipes. But like huggies what are huggies huggies like the wet wipes that use for babies. Sure they have those for adults though and they're non-gendered. Yeah, but they're also more expensive. So for the listeners out there if you want to get some non-gendered wives for your for your privates just get some huggies wipes. They are cheap. And you can get like literally a thousand of them at the drugstore and they work fantastic Huggies should sponsor me okay hold on but a none good you were saying you would be weird if you went to a man's house and you saw that? No if I saw feminine wives like if I saw into a feminine wife. What is a feminine wife so femin so basically like I can't even think of a brand like is it like honey not a honey something. it's honey something but they have like these like brand wipes where they the feminine wipes their hygienic wipes that you can use like say like you know throughout the day so you can feel clean down there but they're non-coholic. Um, they're good for the ph of like your vagina everything I'm rolling my eyes. Okay yeah I think everyone can hear it through through the my help with your vaginal. No it it doesn't it doesn't like it doesn't mess with the ph of your vagina by like you say getting a handful of alcohol and like you know, just like rubbing your clitoris with it. Yeah, so it doesn't it doesn't damage it. But um, it also cleans you leaves it fresh and also always has like this like nice little scent like. You know honey cucumber or rosewater or something but it's a very specific type of brand. So if I saw a packet of feminine wipes in a man's bathroom. There are 3 things I would think I would think he has a girlfriend forget it. But okay I don't want to talk about that. That's not what I would suggest. Okay, it's more so. Ah, okay, so she says shower every day and I always use wipes to stay clean I have an iud so I never get a period I amm always shaven like always we have sex and average twice a day and I know my looks is at the factor either I know I can't make him into a man that craves eating pussy ll lo l but I'm looking for advice for words of encouragement and tricks that may make him realize. There is fun being missed out on both sides so they sound young wealth I hope so because if that's the writing of an adult I'm that's I mean I hate reading Reddit sex comments because they're always.
  • [40:59] Keith and Alyssa: So poorly written. But yeah, it's a lot of things wrong here but go on so the person person once says have you tried talking to him about it and telling him how much you want it? I think that's probably the first best answer. But I think it is also the case that some men are pretty averse to. Going down on their partner I have a friend who hasn't gone down on a woman since his early 20 s he's in his forty s now really yeah, but he's introspect on why he doesn't like it right? I think he's just like that's gross I don't know I don't think he I mean he's been married for a while I think he. His opinion I haven't talked to him about it in at least 10 years but I think his opinion is something like why should I do that? Oh yeah, ouch yeah, well, he's not American so he has like somewhat macho. Oh he says? um, but he's like that. It's kind of this like cultural machimo thing like I don't I don't need to do that. Okay, um, well I guess he found his match if he's married I mean some women don't like being like don't like oral sex either. She's also from the same country. So okay, she may not feel empowered to. I'll feel on about. Yeah anyway, look the point is there are lots of men who don't want to go down on women just like there are lots of women who don't want to go down. Okay, right? Okay, so no I So I hear it and I think there's a lot of other factors here um has she had a conversation with him about why. He doesn't like it because it could be a myriad of things. It could be that he's Nervous. He doesn't know what to do? Um, he could yeah like I mean that he could be nervous about that. He could think that it's not something that she really likes you know and so there are there are there's like some communication things that you can do with that where say she can. Tell him like oh my gosh like it's just amazing Every time you do like I love it and you know just kind of give like you know like positive affirmations back at him where he's just like oh yeah, like this is a good Thing. You know, think that that's None tear affirmations something like moaning and. Sexy talk and telling him to look harder or look lighter or you know demonstrably being enthusiastic about what you're receiving. You know oh that's it baby? Whatever Ah I think stroking his ego. Yeah is that's kind like a lot of men are afraid that they're not. Able to you know, give the woman what she wants and lots of women are pretty noncommunicative when you're down there and so if if you know if they're not orgasming reliably when you go down on them and they're not really giving you feedback I can imagine eventually sort of giving up right? And that's why I I.
  • [43:42] Keith and Alyssa: Think that she also isn't really good at communication because it sounds like she hasn't had this conversation with him at all. She's just gone to Reddit to ask everyone else like what she can do so it doesn't seem like she's like she's you know deld into this topic with him like hey like is this something that I'm doing you know because it could be like maybe he maybe she's. We've heard. We've heard this something like read it before where someone's had like a really particular odor. Yeah maybe like regardless of height like hygiene. Um, it could be some weird religious thing that maybe he has who knows right? but it doesn't seem like they've had the conversation of like why he may be not doing it or yeah and and so. Yeah I think she's just isn't really being communicative with him at all. Yeah I mean look if she hasn't given him vocal encouragement. Yeah or told him that she'd really like him to do it more? Yeah, but that's None thing although I think most men at least in you know. Sexually liberal circles know that most women want their man to go down on that right? and so I have never met a person who would refuse to go down on me. Um, ever. But also I live in a coastal liberal city. So you've never. I've never met with a partner who wouldn't go down on you? No I've never met a person who refused to go down on me ever that I'm so lucky apparently because but I've like I've never I've never and I don't think I ever have any friends your vagina is pristine. Thank you so I work really hard at it. That's. Maybe that's part of it but I can't believe you must be doing something to eliminate the kind of man I look I don't want well maybe like maybe like my elimination system of being like oh what your what your number is and I don't want to reveal that on the show but I can't imagine. My suspected number actually I don't know my number is so that well that's you're revealing that not me, but but but I realize something about yeah but magnitude of I number I don't have a spread sheet of all my actual bar is. It's not 3 um and so ah, yeah, I mean that I can't imagine that you haven't. Already? Yeah, even like a drunken hookup. There wasn't some guy I never I've never run into somebody who was like oh no I don't do that ever. You must be doing something that eliminates that kind of person that heads that off at the pass I don't know if it's maybe I don't know if it's something I'm particularly doing or maybe it's just the. Type of like say like sexual partner that like I'm attracted to right like I don't know what like what? like what are like the stereotypes of someone who just refuses to go down on a woman like is someone who's an uber religious. Is it someone who comes from a culture that's like really maistmo. Um, and that's just not done. It's not like culturally done at all. Ah, it's what.
  • [46:31] Keith and Alyssa: Would be what do you think would be like the stereotypes like surrounding those things like because maybe those are the markers that like I see and I'm like okay I'm not gonna there's there's there's some quadrants here. So there's selfish people versus unselfish people and then there's ah I guess adventurous. And not adventurous and then there's ah I guess macho and something else and so they would need to be and in the right space there to not. To do it I don't know. Yeah I mean I've been with partners never with ah there's never I've never had a longtime partner that I didn't want to go down on but I've had sex with people that I didn't really feel like going down on whatever reason maybe I felt like they weren't. Super clean. Yeah, it just wasn't that attracted to them but did you have but did you have like a moment where they tried you. You know they kind of angled towards you going down on them and you just said no I'm not into that. Yeah, this is a good question has someone tried to insinuate me down there. Yeah I actively refused someone called you out on it. I the answer is yes. Release something's called yeah I think I I think I've been in a circumstance at least once or twice where they've sort of requested and I've said no how did you politely cry I don't remember decline. How did you politely decline that I don't remember ah that'd be such that'd be such a good information. Yeah, good look I don't think I have out I don't think I had a great zinger that but that liberated me yeah I don't think I have like some clever tack for those oral haters to use and you know deploy as needed. I'm trying to think if there's something you can do that would cleverly you could say oh you could say um, you could say that you have like a sore on your tongue or something so like you know like you know like when you eat too many skittles you get like an elongated. You get like an elong elongated taste. Bud yeah, you're just like oh and you could say like oh man like that would just that would dry up the room immediately by saying like yeah I want to see it you want I honest say something like that you want to say something like what is it called? is it an elongated taste bud. Yeah yeah, when you've eaten like too much sugar. Yeah. And you could say like oh it's just it kind of hurts but I have lock jaw from Ah yeah, I was thinking the other day we went on this ah we don't know we went on what's called a via ferrata in.
  • [49:16] Keith and Alyssa: Country we were in we were in Kosovo we were in Kosovo yeah and I split open I had a little blister on my middle finger and maybe this is too much detail but when and and the blister has like. Burst a little bit. Yeah, so it Jason it just like bras a little yeah scab there. Yeah and ah when I hit my fingers inside of you I don't know if it was yesterday or the day before I was like mildly concerned. Oh I know you were fine. It already scbbed over you were great. Okay. I never when the sore was like open and infected I think I had mentioned something and I was like well you're not going anywhere near my a John now. Yeah I think I mention that but yeah I know you were fine. Yeah yeah, thank you for thinking you need some sort of innocuous. You need some sort of non std implying way of saying that you're physically unable to. I'm in in that moment and I don't I don't know I don't have some clever turn of phrase. That's so interesting. You know I think I've have had sexual encounters with somebody where they didn't go down on me but it was just I think it was just regular regular pi v s sacks and I don't and I like ah. Wasn't and maybe it was just like a onetime encounter but I've never been in and like a sexual encounter with somewhere I had more than once you know like like sexual encounter with them and they just refused to go down on me or and I I can't remember a single time where I like someone declined it ever I see so maybe that's the difference maybe there's a difference there interesting yeah I don't know anyway there's None more comment here. That's mildly interesting. Ah they said here's something else to try edge yourself really close to orgasm and then have him finish you off with head that shouldn't take much effort or time and when he finally experiences having a woman come in his mouth because what he's doing to her the light bulb may go off in his brain. And think that's good advice I think it's great advice. Yeah I think if your ah man is hesitant to go down on you and you need him down there for you know 10 to 15 minutes to have any chance of orgasm that's probably a bridge too far for some folks. Especially if they don't love it and so but I'm sure if there's something you can do to get yourself really close and get to a point where he can help you achieve orgasm by going down on you that will stroke his ego. It'll show him that you know it can be a fun way to please his partner. And I like these like I like these little cheat codes for rod training a man. Thank.
  • [51:49] Keith and Alyssa: Yeah, ah, the main thing is make it an ego thing for him. Yeah, make him feel powerful and capable on the other side because we still don't really understand what his reading reasoning behind it is it could just be that he doesn't like it and that's okay, like I don't but I think a conversation has to be had and if he doesn't like it then you have to figure out okay is this something that. Is a huge deal breaker for me a relationship but I don't think you should force anyone to do something. They just don't want to do Mike and I have talked about this before and even on the mail. This is one of Mike's more it's not that it's actually not that controversial. But some people might find this controversial. We've talked about women who don't like giving oral and Mike's advice for them is get over it. Figure out a way to tolerate giving oral because there are some sexual acts like in the past inalingus it. It didn't used to be that every woman's going to expect you to eat out their asshole but ah and you could probably get away with that in the course of a marriage and. There isn't going to be resentment built up but I think receiving oral is so normalized men receiving oral I think there's more cultures where men basically totally expect to receive oral and there are cultures where women can reasonably expect to receive oral but in any case. Yeah, if you're a woman and you really don't like giving head. It's that's fine. You're allowed to do whatever sexual things you want. But I think you will foreclose yourself the possibility of a relationship with a lot of people. I mean the flip side for men who won't eat arbitr I so if we're go to jump down that world. Sure think I think you know I think increasingly I think increasingly men who refuse to go down on women are going to close some doors to themselves as well. But yeah, look you don't have to do anything. You don't have to have sex. You don't have to like let a man put his penis inside of you. But if you decide that you refuse to shave your legs and you don't have to you can do whatever you want but that you're going to close indoors to yourself hey I'll shave my legs today. Gosh. None and just work that is drag me on air jeez scalp me on air. My goodness I think that only happened whats you traveling for a while here I think there was only one day where I was like to be fair I kept saying I was going to do it but I just kept forgetting you kept threatening to shave. Kept writing to shave. Yeah, okay, let's do we got about? we've got about five more minutes here so let's do None more this person says I come right? before she comes every time he's a 21 year old male. My girlfriend and I have about three months have quite a bit of sex. However I've been dealing with this problem that has been getting into my head.
  • [54:35] Keith and Alyssa: Can tell whenever my girlfriend is about to come because of her escalated wetness grabbing and moaning and this turns me on too much just before she is about to come I get too excited because of her excitement and come immediately I could tell there is some disappointment when this happens and I feel bad but I can't help it. Feel like I can go for hours. But once I feel her about to come I can't control myself. What do I do yeah, that's a tricky one I feel for him. It's all sweet. That's really sweet. Well. I know what Mike would say here and because he's not here. let me just let me just take the mike position like would say Mike would say like oh yeah, I'm sure she was about to come. Yeah, every time she was so close but let's assume for the sake of conversation that he is actually ah getting over some sort of Peakek of arousal. Because of some activity she does right before she would have it otherwise actually came I got the programmar construction there. Um yeah I don't know it's pretty hot when you think your partner's about to come I think. And yeah, I'm not quite sure. Yeah I don't deny that faking orgasms is totally a thing and I think using I yeah like those like vocal copulation sounds to kind of help bring a man over to the edge it. It does it. It can help if like you're just like this person off this right? previous partners you're talking. Yeah. Um, just num steel manning I clarifying for the listen I am just steel manning. Um, Mike's argument here. But I think yeah I mean there are it's it's really sweet that he's trying to he's trying to like figure out ways because he's just like you know her pleasures bringing me pleasure and I just can't. You know like I just can't stop like before she finishes kind of a thing. So what could she desensitize him could could she no she totally could I mean she put a do them on. Oh sure I would I was wondering if she could fake having way more orgasms and get to the point where he's like oh whatever this is this is big. Um, but even more training exercise. It's like Pavlov's dog with with like with with or test. Yeah, yeah, we do. But this case we need to desensitize exactly yeah over some yeah oversensitize it exactly? Yeah, he like oh I mean maybe there's things that she can do because it sounds like if. Say they're going I mean it depends like what is the amount of time that's going like's they're having sex before the orgasm right? like before like she starts to reach climax um, because there are like these different things you can get like certain sex toys that you can like start implementing during sex. They even have like this um like oil you can put in your clitoris.
  • [57:13] Keith and Alyssa: To really like make it really extremely sensitive. You know so it actually makes orgasm mean oh she really intense and quick. She can do things to bring herself to orgasm like a little bit say quicker. You know if he's having a hard time I don't know does like does like masturbating a ton. Like desensitized men because I know like if I like if I use a vibrator too much. It's just like like a callous builds it for my clearis. Yeah I think that men can do various things to desensitize themselves. There's desensitizing creams. They can masturbate earlier in the day wear a condom. They can wear a condom There's various things I think also women's arousal. Moves more slowly than men. So if he feels like he's about to come. He can pull out for a minute not a minute you know 30 seconds or whatever and lower. He'll get much further away from orgasm than she will in the in the 25 seconds yeah that they're not he could switch it up like say maybe if he's about to come. Pull out maybe start giving her oral sex if hes and you sure whatever it is. But I think that he can calm down and get to a place where he can continue quicker and then when they restart she'll be much closer orgasm yeah longer foreplay even sure. So I think like getting to that point of arousal. It's like I can understand like the. Access for like women before they start to climax. It's a little bit slower than for men. So I imagine maybe longer foreplay beforehand like getting her to like that edge of arousal and then start having sex like maybe that's where they can kind of like get on equal grounds together. Yeah yeah, he just basically needs to be patient in some way. See here all right? We've been going for an hour I think that's enough, do you have any partying words for ussa no nothing, nothing profound at least so that's a wrap on today's episode thanks again for stepping to the mic shoes Alissa and thanks to you our listeners for your time. We hope to have you back. Next week for another episode of your mileage may vary bye.