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Episode 82: Is Mike OK?, Masturbation Speed Runs, Circumcision, Bad At Sex?

Team YMMV | 9-1-2022 | 1:04:28

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Keith asks Mike probing questions about how he's doing psychologically. Spoiler alert: Not well.

But -- and this is important -- no sexual side effects to speak of. Importantly, that suggests a male potency beyond what you probably think he's capable of. We're talking Clubber Lang-level potency.

In the "fastest time to nut" category, both hosts are doing decently well. There's some question as to the absolute fastest that could be achieved, but it's plainly under 5 minutes, which is impressive however you slice it.

Some discussion of the attractiveness of beards on men and circumcised versus "natural" plumbing downstairs. What happens when you move on from a relationship where sex was off the hook? And can an attractive young woman actually be "bad" at sex.

Not to beat a dead horse here, but we're mostly in the podcasting game for the chicks (who isn't?). So, if a lovely young lady would like to meet either host, please contact us.

We get a lot of our questions from Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/82/best-sex

https://ymmv.me/82/bad-sex

https://ymmv.me/82/married-sex

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is controversial but usually in good faith I'm Keith my co-host is mike and for what seems like the first time in a long while we're recording together. Let's see if we still have the touch Mike yeah, so I enjoyed.
  • [00:13] Mike: Um, yeah I think we do. We'll see.
  • [00:19] Keith: The last episode it was a solo episode with with obviously just you but I enjoyed it's yeah I enjoyed it so much that I am now confused about whether we should change formats like I mean do we should We even talk about sex that he works.
  • [00:23] Mike: You told me was excellent. Oh. Really go on. Yeah, no, no, we can talk about sex we you know we can broaden it out a little bit but I don't want to disappoint our loyal listenership that is looking for where where where the cream pie should go and so forth.
  • [00:37] Keith: We should just talk about our our personal issues.
  • [00:45] Keith: Um, um.
  • [00:51] Keith: Yeah, yeah, Rachi This has always been a big seller all right fine. But I mean I would be remiss if I don't ask you some questions about your. Ah.
  • [00:53] Mike: Yes.
  • [01:01] Mike: Yeah, you sent me a set of questions you you see you seemed inclined to interrogate me I I have nothing to hide like let's let's go. Let's get it on.
  • [01:10] Keith: Okay, so ah, would you like me to summarize what what you revealed in. Okay.
  • [01:14] Mike: Sure I maybe I should now go ahead. Go ahead. It'll be interesting.
  • [01:20] Keith: Okay, ah so you revealed that for some amount of time you have been taking ah some small dosage low dosage ssri and that ah. Sometime in the last month or so the prescription expired or something or for some reason you.
  • [01:42] Mike: It was longer ago than that it was like six months ago but go on.
  • [01:45] Keith: Okay, all right? So you were you? You got off the the med and you had a reaction to not being on the med that sort of surprised you in its intensity.
  • [02:00] Mike: Yes, yeah, and I think that um one of your criticisms. You asked me why we hadn't discussed that before and I mean aside from the fact like you know, nobody's obliged to discuss with somebody their medical history. Ah.
  • [02:13] Keith: Of course, but but we talk about many things but yes, go on.
  • [02:16] Mike: I think the I think the real reason the sure for you positive that maybe I was embarrassed I don't maybe it's possible I'm not saying that's not right? but I think really and this is why I wasn't concerned when I ran out and the reason I ran out was I was just irresponsible I ah because of covid I didn't like. Have my regular appointments with my doctor and so it was just like oh you know and I just figured it. It's yes, I really didn't think it was doing anything and so I didn't think it was a notable thing and so you say why were you taking it all I don't know it was a really low. It is like one eighth the adult typical dose and so I was like you know.
  • [02:47] Keith: Um, ah.
  • [02:48] Mike: But then what I learned yeah there were some things that seemed to do like.. For example I found that like the day after I would take that. Ah, there were certain things I found I was better at like playing the piano I would do better right? after this is not that interesting but like so so there was something it was doing but I thought it wasn't very being very very impactful as I've learned subsequently like that's actually totally wrong. In fact, like it's really common for people to have a really low dosage of these things that like prevents resumption of of symptoms and actually that can be a really nice thing because and I know you have questions about this but like the various side effects of these medications that like you don't really get but I can speak to some of them. So I think you had some questions on some more questions. So.
  • [03:22] Keith: Yeah, well okay I have a couple other questions around the stopping taking them accidentally basically have you ever had a intermission in them before. Okay, okay.
  • [03:29] Mike: Yeah, yeah.
  • [03:35] Mike: Now and that was since 2006
  • [03:41] Keith: Okay, so that explains why this was such a surprise or why? Yeah, you'd basically forgotten what it was like to not be on them or your body Your body had forgotten anyway.
  • [03:43] Mike: Yeah I thought I mean I think it's a little bit like you know if you watch law and order. There's like this standard thing on law and order where there's like somebody who's schizophrenic and they go off their meds and start like talking to Zulu or whatever like.
  • [03:58] Keith: Right? yeah.
  • [04:02] Mike: Because they think they're better and I think that's it's just that simple like I thought oh yeah, this isn't doing anything I've been feeling fine for a really long time like it's really long time and so I was like oh this is cool and like no yeah, it was an interesting experience in that regard. Yeah.
  • [04:13] Keith: Can you explain the way you felt when you were off them.
  • [04:22] Mike: Yeah, it's basically just that what I find is that and I think this is how it is for normal people. Ah that there's some sort of upper limit unless you're like being chased by a bear.
  • [04:36] Mike: You know, ah you get lost in the French catacom in the Paris Parisian catacombs without a light and so you're like literally going to die like in that situation I think anybody would freak out and panic. Ah, but for someone with what I have like without any medication that can like I can get to that level of just craziness sometimes without.
  • [04:41] Keith: Um, ah yeah.
  • [04:56] Mike: Without any such stimulus and and even with this tiny dosage like there was just some sort of limit if I was like just you know in an ordinary situation of how anybody feels anxiety sometimes just randomly and that's just normal but like there was some limit and so I would say it made me much more normal in that regard that like there was some limit.
  • [05:11] Keith: Okay, you want to freak out in that space in that case.
  • [05:13] Mike: Yes, if I was chased by a bear I would freak out and do the same thing anybody would but like I yeah just brought yeah exactly so it was actually really good like it was basically doing what it's supposed to do is like sort of cut out that like there's some you know problem in my brain that makes it so like there's a level of ah experience that's possible.
  • [05:31] Keith: Okay, so all right? So to be clear. Yeah, basically the problem that you're trying to address is some sort of increased anxiety and ah you found that that this ah increased anxiety returned in a way and yeah with.
  • [05:32] Mike: Ah, yeah.
  • [05:50] Keith: Unexpected intensity when you went off the ssri.
  • [05:52] Mike: Yeah, and I can be more specific about what exactly happened so I was feeling I was I was feeling somewhat anxious but I was like oh this is still manageable and then I I was doing one of the things 1 of the crazy and ah people have since chastised me for all sorts of things including this ah things that you and I do which is to. Not ah to do alternate daily fasting so to not eat half the time and I had been doing this ah and I was like oh yeah, okay I feel a little bit bad and then I I have some orange trees in my yard and I picked like 6 oranges and I squeezed them and I had an entire glass of fresh-reezed orange juice.
  • [06:10] Keith: Yes, yeah.
  • [06:27] Keith: Like on one of your fast days. Oh boy.
  • [06:30] Mike: And I was yes and I was sitting on the I was in the bathroom doing my business and I just went insane and I'm sure it was because of the blood sugar I'm sure that's what triggered it so was yeah and I just I like I yeah I just I just like I just was like oh wow this is not good. This is a sensation I haven't had in many years
  • [06:36] Keith: Um, ah yeah, yeah.
  • [06:48] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [06:49] Mike: And then once that happens like it becomes this whole BS of like having to cope with it I mean I can sort of trivialize but like I couldn't sleep that night I had trouble sleeping the next night this the following day I did 50000 steps of exercise like I ran.
  • [06:56] Keith: Right.
  • [07:03] Keith: Yep.
  • [07:03] Mike: Probably Twenty Miles Or 25 miles trying to just sort of like get the adrenaline out of my system and it just doesn't work like it's yeah, like you try to do that stuff and like ultimately I was like I was one once I was sort of in a place where I could reflect on it better I was like okay this is obviously what's going on so I've got to deal with those. Yeah.
  • [07:06] Keith: Yeah.
  • [07:18] Keith: Ah, yeah I fully once had anything even close to an anxiety ah attack or panic attack I don't even know what to call it but it was I took an edible that I got this was before it was legal in California and. I got it from a friend and he was a big pothead and I've at that time I think I'd smoked weed like twice in my life or something and I I don't think I'd ever had an edible and so I took this edible and I was camping with my then girlfriend and I just yeah, just. Everything felt like some sort of yeah I just felt this like incredible anxiety and yeah I was able to intellectualize it while it was occurring I was like okay I'm the way I'm feeling is irrational and unreasonable but I was unable to make it stop. Was it similar in your case or to.
  • [08:15] Mike: Yeah, it's similar. Although if you if you if it's if you can attach it to like taking pot say you know it's going to wear off. You know it has some sort of half -life and it's going to wear off. It's much more distressing when it just like continues and you can't sleep and it's the next day and yeah, so that's that's the problem is you're kind of like okay this.
  • [08:23] Keith: Yes, yes, yes.
  • [08:35] Mike: You know, a lot of the therapy-based approaches to this problem focus on oh you know they typically last only like 10 minutes and that's true, but the thing that can happen like an individual episode will last long but they can come in waves and it can just keep going and going and going and then your yeah I mean you you. It's difficult to stop it. You don't have a substance. You've taken that's going to clear out of your system and then you're going to feel better like that doesn't necessarily happen and um and look it's ah it's ah it's ah it's pretty terrible disorder like you do I mean there are people that like will have these sort of rolling panic attacks for periods of time and then like commit suicide I mean it's like a problem.
  • [09:02] Keith: Aha.
  • [09:12] Mike: So it's not great like you want to address it? yeah.
  • [09:12] Keith: Right? Yeah, okay that all.
  • [09:18] Mike: And their lifestyle things I mean there are things like you can exercise you can avoid drinking glasses of orange juice right? after you've um, ah been fasting. Um, yeah, you can control your die. There are things of course there like behavioral things you can do but for a lot of people like it's just. Yeah,, there's basically you, there's just something wrong in your brain and you have to treat it.
  • [09:35] Keith: Yeah I don't I mean I don't need to put up guardrails like that I've yeah I've never had a I guess sober anxiety attack if if I did I would probably do whatever I could to figure out how to avoid it including taking low dosage.
  • [09:49] Mike: Right? Well and there's I mean the problem is that there's a I mean there's a disorder which is very common called agoraphobia I probably mentioned this last week where people like start because the thing is.
  • [09:54] Keith: Drugs.
  • [10:02] Keith: Are.
  • [10:07] Mike: When you have one, you're going your brain naturally is going to say Well what you know it's going to look for a cause if the causes that you took a drug were great then maybe you don't take that drug anymore. But if the but let's say there is no cause and you're in a really common one is driving your car and then people get afraid to drive their car. Okay, and then maybe they have one and they're in a park.
  • [10:20] Keith: Right.
  • [10:27] Mike: Like oh I'm afraid of parks and so people wind up bedbound they wind up in stuck in their house right? right? And so that that absolutely happens to people and um, yeah, and so that's why like my opinion about this is people should go to a doctor and treat it because the thing is like the.
  • [10:27] Keith: Right ago agoraho of Agoraphobia literally means like afraid to go outside right.
  • [10:46] Mike: Ah, yeah I mean as I learn very clearly like the ah E. Yeah I mean you I don't you wouldn't start on a low dosage but you can get to a point where you can maintain on on a dosage of these things that doesn't I didn't even think it was doing anything obviously was and so that's great like you're like oh this is great like i'm. Yeah, and then you're just having a normal life which is great. Yeah.
  • [11:05] Keith: Um, yeah I strongly agree that to the extent that it's controllable. People should do whatever they can to control it I can't imagine how incapacitating it would be to like have to worry about this occurring even some small fraction of the time.
  • [11:12] Mike: Um, yeah I'm right.
  • [11:21] Mike: Right? I mentioned that the I yeah I would advocate strongly for there. There are a lot of people who advocate against medication and will say oh you can just do behavioral therapy and stuff like that and that works for some people and that's great if it does but there're people it doesn't work for.
  • [11:31] Keith: Yeah.
  • [11:39] Keith: Yes.
  • [11:40] Mike: And so it's like yeah you know and also like if you're somebody who's concerned about this and you are reading about people who advocate alternate approaches. Always ask yourself like why are they selling you something because they usually are they're selling a book or a video or a course and it's like look they're they're trying to scare you.
  • [11:55] Keith: Right.
  • [11:59] Mike: So they can sell you I mean they or at least you should consider that possibility anyway.
  • [12:02] Keith: Yeah, yeah, like my understanding about um depression and anxiety disorders are is that yeah, they've sort of long been 2 Well-known treatments one is cbt Cognitive Behavioral therapy. Some people have success with that and and then the other is various drugs Ssris or Benzos or whatever. Maybe there's some other suite and more recently. Ah,, there's been some encouraging research around various psychedelics. Um. We could talk about that now or do you want to table that and switch to sex and we could talk about psychedelics and our next podcast.
  • [12:39] Mike: We why don't we do that but I do think you had at least 1 sexual question related to ssri is something about side effects I can tell you about that. That's interesting.
  • [12:44] Keith: Well yeah, yeah, so the famous the famous side effect of ssri is that people lose well. Okay, here's what I think it's interesting I've actually never looked this up So I'm going to say what I think the side effect is and I'm sure you actually know.
  • [13:02] Mike: Yes.
  • [13:03] Keith: But it's supposed to be and maybe you be to be serious but we'll get to that in a moment. Ah yeah, my understanding is that it sort of takes away your libido and also can make it harder to get an erection. Those are the I figured it wasn't.
  • [13:16] Mike: Yeah, so that's that's not exactly right? Although let me say that these things are always in like a kind of a constellation of things. So let me just speak of of my experience I'm extremely fortunate in the like I don't I actually don't have much side effect. However I have experienced when you first. When you haven't taken any and so you first take it. So I mean I have this experience recently because I started taking it again and at a higher dosage because like you have to sort of get it going but I remember this from previously as well like many years ago um so the ah usually these effects go away.
  • [13:40] Keith: Yep.
  • [13:55] Mike: Ah, with some amount of time. They don't always some people get them anyway. The curious effects you get. Of course if you're feeling terrible. You're not going to have a high libido so there's that so like there there could just be that sort of at the outset. Um, but the you can get not erectile dysfunction but you can get the ability the the situation where you can't.
  • [14:02] Keith: Sure.
  • [14:15] Mike: Nut you can't come so you like you basically like go on and on and on and you just can't like it's like somehow the drug in the same way that it takes away your well you can imagine like I actually think like 1 of the things I was with the psychedelic experience.
  • [14:17] Keith: Whoa.
  • [14:34] Mike: Orgasming panicking. These are all situations where you kind of like go over some threshold you kind of go over a waterfall right? and like you psychologically like something happens. That's a little that out of your control and I think in the same way that like it's starting to block your ability to panic it starts to block your ability to orgasm. So. It's really frustrating. You're basically like I mean it's kind of cool if you want to like be a porn star.
  • [14:54] Keith: Ah, maybe maybe it caps some sort of some sort of yeah the local maximum is lowered or something and so panicking is panicking is harder and orcasmy is harder.
  • [15:03] Mike: Right? So You can't get over that edge. That's right? and so I mean and when I've when I've had this experience um and not a lot. But when I've had it. It makes me think of an experience that I think women sometimes have because women. It' pretty common for women to like be able to get aroused and then not get over the orgasm hump like there's something missing there and they can't do it' you're like oh this must be what it's like for them and it's pretty annoying. The there's another thing though which is go Ahead. Yep.
  • [15:21] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [15:30] Keith: Hold on hold on. Yeah I mean I've experienced that but only what I'm doing what of my marathon days where I'm orgasming more times and it's appropriate and like you know, like maybe the fourth or fifth orgasm. It's like ah.
  • [15:38] Mike: Ok, it'd be like that.
  • [15:45] Keith: I could probably keep masturbating here. But this is getting to feel laborious and I'm chafing now and it's just not.
  • [15:51] Mike: Well, you can sort of see the waterfall somewhere ahead of you but you can just never get to it. You're just like ah this is so annoying. Um, so there's there's another thing that I've experienced that also pretty much completely goes away but I remember it which is it.
  • [15:54] Keith: Right? Yeah, yeah, it's really discouraging.
  • [16:09] Mike: Discordinatees for me at least a little bit your orgasm so ordinarily a guy has yeah so good. Yeah, so ordinarily a guy has very discreete pulses. You know like you'll have say between I we've debated this before I'll say between 5 and fifteen. It's.
  • [16:14] Keith: What do you mean.
  • [16:28] Mike: Closer to 5 and 15 kind of orgasmic contractions of your prostate and everything right to when you orgasm um, I've had the experience where like the instead of these being like really discrete pulses. It'll feel like maybe there's like 1 longer 1 or maybe it? Yeah, they don't feel as coordinated. It's like it somehow messes up your body's ability to like get these really organized pulse. It doesn't really affect the pleasure but you notice it you're like oh that's weird like it's it's there semen coming out but it's not pulsing out in the same way. It's like almost streaming out or something. Yeah.
  • [16:48] Keith: Whoa.
  • [16:54] Keith: That is weird.
  • [17:01] Keith: Um, ah, okay, that's pretty wild.
  • [17:04] Mike: It's not. It's not good. It's just weird. It's just yeah, it's It's not good or bad. It's just sort of weird again. My experiences that like especially on like this really low of much lower dose like this none of this stuff happens. It just doesn't make any difference. But yeah.
  • [17:13] Keith: Yeah, are there any other aspects of being on it that you dislike.
  • [17:22] Mike: Um, I think that everybody dislikes being on some medication you're like oh you know.
  • [17:25] Keith: Yeah, but do you like feel like less intensive like we have a mutual friend who once he started taking Ssris I thought he he in some ways became like the way that he would flip out about stuff was pretty amusing. And what the the drugs sort of like took that edge away a little bit. Um I haven't I haven't really known you not on ssri. So so I don't know but I think you I think you would conce it the same and it sounds like you you yeah you don't notice anything similar in your behavior.
  • [17:46] Mike: Yeah I don't think so.
  • [18:01] Mike: I think that I mean I I think that it's dose dependent I'm sure so like yeah, there's a dose you could take where that would for sure happen I just haven't I like experienced that like I've never like there are people I mean ah there are people that take you know what would that be 64 times as much as what I was taking.
  • [18:18] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
  • [18:19] Mike: For like ocd 64 times like that's yeah I was taking one eight they would take 8 times and then even a normal adult dose is like one eighth what a yeah what a Ocd person would take so I mean there are these you can get up to these levels that are so elevated and and yeah you wonder I sort of wonder well what would happen to me if i. Took that level I think I've asked a doctor that before and they're like yeah probably nothing. But yeah, there are people to talk about like sort of it making you emotionally like not able to appreciate things emotionally like you're just like oh everything's flat like you're a little bit. Maybe the way you'd imagine like an autistic person might be so.
  • [18:52] Keith: Yeah.
  • [18:55] Mike: But I've not experienced that tip to my knowledge.
  • [18:59] Keith: Yeah I mean it's a bit subjective but I don't know you're more aware of your behavior than most people. So anyway, all right, Let's talk about sex. Um.
  • [19:08] Mike: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
  • [19:16] Keith: I have a couple things here before we dive into some emails and Reddit stuff. But um, let's say you were in a situation where um, you hadn't been able to have an orgasm for a few days and. You had a brief window where you were going to be able to masturbate. What is the fastest you think you could go from 0 to 60.
  • [19:43] Mike: Do I have porn or not.
  • [19:47] Keith: Excellent question I thought about adding that in. But then I knew you would ask Ah sure. Yeah, you have your you have your phone.
  • [19:55] Mike: My phone. Ah I mean I like I think there's some old standbys that I could use. We've viewed a couple of them I think on the podcast. Um I think that would did you ask me what the fastest I could go from 0 to sixty was yeah.
  • [19:59] Keith: Are.
  • [20:08] Keith: Yeah, from like you know the you you your window begins where you have some privacy and yeah.
  • [20:15] Mike: I sure I think that I think that's numerous times in my life I've been able to take a shower that was a normal length but I was able to so so that would be I guess like 5 to 7 minutes or something.
  • [20:23] Keith: Um, right? Yeah yeah.
  • [20:32] Mike: And I was able to soap myself too like I didn't just neglect that like I was so so maybe the masturbating was 3 to 4 minutes or something.
  • [20:36] Keith: Right? right? right? Yeah, would you be using your phone in the circumstance I mean the capacitance Touchsc Screenen is really annoying when your fingers wet so you got to keep 1 hand dry and the other. Yeah.
  • [20:45] Mike: Yeah, it is. It is the phone in the showers is the worst like you have to like um, ah dry Washcloth. You can sort of have there to wipe off this because the problem is even ah. Well if you yeah I mean it's actually like I think you don't do this right? This is like a never a thing you do right? Okay, both Fine. So So maybe there's some technology here that I can so obviously one of your hands is going to be wet because one of your hands has to be.
  • [21:04] Keith: And masturbating in the shower or using my phone to masturbate both.
  • [21:14] Keith: Yeah.
  • [21:18] Mike: Let's assume that you have like warm to hot water flowing over your body So one of your hands has to be caressing part of your body. Okay, so you have this incentive to keep the other hand dry right? and so then so that's a problem and then you have this thing where this there's so you can keep typically in a shower. There'll be somewhere. You can put the phone that's safe.
  • [21:22] Keith: Yeah. Yes, yes.
  • [21:38] Mike: It's not going to get just water sprayed on. However, when the water hits your chest say it's going to splatter onto the phone. So the trick is you also need some sort of a dry something that you can then use that free hand that you carefully keeping dry to occasionally dry the screen that really there should be a technological solution to this now that saying it.
  • [21:38] Keith: Yep. Yes, yes.
  • [21:54] Keith: Yeah, there should be.
  • [21:57] Mike: And then um and then you have to really assiduously keep that hand dry if it does get way. Of course you can secondary use of the dry washc clothth or towel or whatever you have is to dry that hand again, but 1 so you basically have to pick a hand that's going to be the wet hand. Yeah.
  • [22:06] Keith: Um, yep, okay, yes, yeah, okay I mean I've dealt with this a couple times while masturbating more times. Ah, like I'll be expecting a text message that I need to respond to while I'm in the shower and so but yeah, I'll keep a washcloth nearby so I can try try my hand off in that case. Okay, so okay, that timef frame is similar to mine. So there's nothing interesting to discuss there. But if you were if there were but like. Putting a gun to your head would meaningfully affect your ability to do this. But if you had some sort of strong incentive to ah, go from 0 to orgasm as quickly as possible and let's say that there's no.
  • [22:51] Keith: There's no pressure around it like let's say that ah somebody says like you know you can try this as many times as you like over the next fifty days um you know. So for example, 1 thing I think I would do is I would wait you know four days without masturbating or something and then maybe I would like prepare some material. Um.
  • [23:10] Keith: And you know in that case I think I could get it I wonder if I can get it down to less than 2 minutes
  • [23:16] Mike: It's a little variable I mean yeah, like having fifty days would help because you have to try repeatedly to see what did you think you could get under 3 minutes or something 2 minutes yeah it would depend I the four days would help a lot with that.
  • [23:19] Keith: Yeah, 2 minutes I think I can get under 2 right? You have to be really stopped up but probably not too stopped up, you might lose the muscle memory.
  • [23:32] Mike: Yeah, yeah, and the well with the the material that you save up. That's also tricky because I find that sometimes something that I think is going to work really well doesn't It's a little. Yeah, it's a little variable. There's some kind of a subconscious thing there.
  • [23:42] Keith: Yes, right? And if you check it too much then it's no longer new and so it loses its effectives that way so you need to check it enough. You need to vet the material enough for it to be probably interesting.
  • [23:59] Mike: Um, what do you think I have a question for you though? What do you think? Ah, okay, let's say you could do 2 minutes in that situation. Let's say that if they said 2 other variables that are possible. 1 is a female partner that you are familiar with who can be present.
  • [24:15] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [24:17] Mike: And doing something and 2 is a novel female partner that you're not familiar with who can be present and doing something but not, you're not having sex with them. Let's say you're not touching them. But do you you think that would materially help you in each case.
  • [24:30] Keith: Um, maybe if we're on a hollow deck but in real life I think I would be anxious about the new person I would I would feel like I don't know that they would be judging me or yeah, it needs to be a situation where.
  • [24:40] Mike: Um.
  • [24:47] Mike: What if she what if there would let's say it was like you were on. Ah it was some sort of some version of like the Mr Beast Youtube channel where he like does these game shows and she and you are both going to win a prize.
  • [24:48] Keith: Ah, really it.
  • [24:55] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah, we're we're mutually assured ah reward. yeah yeah I mean Mike you're youre you're.
  • [25:01] Mike: So you're like look she yes, she wants the $10000 or something and so she it's just you have to come in 75 seconds and she could do literally anything.
  • [25:10] Keith: Basically just recreating a holodeck then but sure, um, right right? Unfortunately, they would have to be a new contestant woman but to too bad for the first 7 right? exactly? ah.
  • [25:13] Mike: There's pressure though because of the money that's true, but you can do it repeatedly like you said I mean it's not you know.
  • [25:23] Mike: You're like I disappointed the last 7 women. Sorry.
  • [25:30] Keith: Ah, yeah, probably I mean it's intuitively.. It seems like that should be better I would have to get over my like I don't know shame and like want to set want to satisfy them. But yeah I mean by creating this situation where they're. Mutually assured like they're not judging anything. They're just there. They're just there for the biscuit as well. Yeah, maybe that would be better.
  • [25:51] Mike: I would say I would say that when I was say seventeen years old it would be less than a minute for that for the novel woman who's encouraging me might have been. It would have been really fast at some age because it would have been so exciting to be in that situation I would have just like.
  • [26:03] Keith: Um, yeah, right, right? right? Yeah, yeah, let's set a minute.
  • [26:10] Mike: Because it's such an impossible situation to sort of even envision it. Yeah.
  • [26:21] Keith: Sort of intrigued to try this.
  • [26:22] Mike: With a you know that where you are what what country you in yeah know I mean may this probably doesn't matter to you but like I did a little bit of searching for the various because you've been as our assiduous listeners know traveling around Eastern Europe sort of on the Eastern side of sort of the.
  • [26:28] Keith: Montenegro.
  • [26:41] Mike: the coast I guess the Eastern Adriatic is that what you'd call it like the go greece go east and there's.
  • [26:42] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we've been to there. There are five six balkan countries now 5 balkan countries that touch the adriatic right? So you have this is boring croatia Bosnia Montenegro Albania and then.
  • [26:51] Mike: Okay.
  • [27:00] Keith: Many people count Greece as a balkan country but Greece doesn't technically touch the adriatics see. It's called something else down there I don't know what it's called.
  • [27:08] Mike: Um, okay, the ah but my point was that a lot of these places have ah brothels legally like have you know you haven't considered that at all or like ah discussed that with your traveling companion.
  • [27:15] Keith: Yeah, at the well ah I'm not quite sure how that would come up naturally in conversation withlissa. Ah I think we've been through this like a bit before.
  • [27:25] Mike: Just like hey there were a lot of brothels here.
  • [27:32] Keith: Thing that stops me from indulging in prostitution is not access. It's that it doesn't seem that compelling to me I think there are the weve we talked about things that could make it compelling but like I don't like I don't really like strip clubs right? like I don't like this like faked.
  • [27:40] Mike: Okay.
  • [27:51] Mike: How about how about you go with like say $300 which is a large sum where you are and you just say look I don't really like these places. Why don't you get like 3 women see if they can make me have fun. You guys figure it out make this fun for me.
  • [27:52] Keith: Interest in me.
  • [27:57] Keith: Yes.
  • [28:05] Keith: Right? Yeah, right? You guys brainstorp yeah I think that's I think that's what tiger woods did except instead of $300 it was 30000 or whatever. Um now.
  • [28:10] Mike: Yeah.
  • [28:16] Mike: Sure sure all right? You've released. Ah, it's crossed your mind. But yeah, it's it's interesting. How many of those countries I mean Germany's a notable example where like they have or Germany but yeah, like in Germany they I've been in a few cities in Germany where they have these and i. Actually at the time didn't even think about this but they have these enormous brothels and it's completely legal and you're like wow that's it's just it's not a United States thing for the most part.
  • [28:37] Keith: I I think some countries are even more liberal than that I think Amsterdam has I don't know what they call the nationalized healthcare system there. But for people who are ah. Ah, disabled in some way where having sex is very difficult for them. They you can get a voucher for a sex worker to service you and it's been It's been controversial in that kind of thing. But yeah, that's how it works in Amsterdam.
  • [29:03] Mike: yeah I've seen I saw yeah yeah I saw an article about it about that in Japan as well. There was some disabled guy who'd have a woman come beat him off and I was yeah I was singing to myself I guess you don't feel this way but like honestly if. If there was some way to get a woman to come beat me off a couple times a week like I might do that I don't see any I feel like that's okay, if it was culturally acceptable.
  • [29:30] Keith: Yeah, Alyssa and I alyssa and I did get a massage. Ah what country were we in I think we were in Bulgaria or Romania and it was a time massage place.
  • [29:42] Mike: K.
  • [29:47] Keith: And it definitely felt like both of us We we got a couples massage so we were on beds next to each other and um, well nevertheless the massuse when she was doing my legs you know normally.
  • [29:53] Mike: Now.
  • [30:05] Keith: They'll they'll do your thighs a bit but there's some area below which they always stay south and that was just not the case in this thing like she got up like into the crease where like my legs connect to my groins my groin and yeah like I mean.
  • [30:10] Mike: Yeah.
  • [30:25] Keith: It's just the case that like her hand brushed my scrotum like several times and she sort of did the same thing like when I was on on my back like she like came way up way up there and it just felt like if I sort of like leaned over.
  • [30:41] Mike: How would you leave aren't you lying on your back.
  • [30:42] Keith: Like I don't know ah would get well when she was on my quads. Yes and when she was doing my hamstrings I was on my stomach but Alyssa's reported that she like literally massaged her breasts.
  • [30:50] Mike: Okay, okay.
  • [30:59] Mike: Nice, nice.
  • [31:02] Keith: And you know, ah.
  • [31:04] Mike: She enjoy that was that was that a positive experience or.
  • [31:07] Keith: Well I think her main concern was that I was going to freak out because she she had she had planned this massage and I had made some joke about like look.
  • [31:13] Mike: Our cheese.
  • [31:22] Keith: Like I don't know what thai massage places are like here in Bulgaria but I think there's some risk that this is not going to be exactly ah, above board and she was like no, you're be ridiculous and so I think she was like concerned with what I would think more than anything. Um.
  • [31:34] Mike: So this is wait so I just want to get make sure I get the scene correct so there were 2 women, 2 beds you and your girlfriend and the 2 women massaging you were the women attractive.
  • [31:41] Keith: Yep.
  • [31:48] Mike: Okay.
  • [31:49] Keith: Not really I didn't interestingly I didn't really know at the time because the way they did. It was um oh sorry another detail they they asked us they asked us to take our clothes off and ah lay face down.
  • [31:59] Mike: It's a glory hole massage.
  • [32:06] Keith: On the bed and so I did by left my underwear on and then I remember like when she picked the towel up she like seemed irritated that I had like left my underwear on and then she didn't ask me to take them off but like yeah she kept like ah tucking them up and I was wearing Boxer Briefs and so she was giving me like.
  • [32:15] Mike: Okay.
  • [32:24] Keith: Basically a wedgie so that she could have access to whatever she needed access to anyway look The only reason I break Well I brought this up because you talked about ah getting somebody to beat you off twice a week I like I don't know a listen I talked about this extensively and we we decided it was like a coin toss like if we had asked for something more.
  • [32:25] Mike: Right? right.
  • [32:44] Keith: Could have gone very badly or they could have met the request and we thought it was about fifty fifty I'm just not sure how to measure that kind of thing.
  • [32:51] Mike: Okay, yeah, i've've I think I've said this before on the podcast. But I think that ah I I'm not sure I feel about like certain levels of prostitution but like happy ending massages I think it's like a thing that probably should be legal I Just don't see I did I like I don't know that doesn't seem like a.
  • [33:00] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [33:08] Mike: I Mean you can have a security measures and stuff so that the woman can't be exploited in certain ways. But you know maybe I don't understand enough about it. Maybe when a misuse is put in that situation. The guy just too frequently like demands sex or oral or something and so you just can't do it So I don't know enough. Yeah, but it.
  • [33:21] Keith: Yeah, the power dynamic is such that there's some like but but morally I I strongly agree with you like setting aside the danger aspects. Yes, if you could if you could guarantee safety then what's what's the problem here.
  • [33:28] Mike: Yeah, if there were a way to limit it to hand jobs right? Yes, then there's there's no health. There's no health issue and like from the guy's perspective I Just think it would like lower violence crime rates I think guys would behave better because they just be be like oh man I Just want to check to beat me off and they just go do it.
  • [33:43] Keith: Yeah, they have like a really stressful day at work I don't think I would find that more compelling than masturbating I really like pornography I Guess yeah.
  • [33:48] Mike: Exactly.
  • [33:52] Mike: I would Well they don't There's no reason to stop you from doing that they don't care. You could have like an oculus that you wear, you're like Sir What would you like to on your oculus while I beat you off, You're like oh I want I want. Ah.
  • [34:03] Keith: Yeah I think I would just feel shameful like it's just it feels so pathetic right? after the fourth time It's like oh whatever This is what people do.
  • [34:08] Mike: This hot chick I would too everybody would feel shame I just I think that I wouldn't care that much I'd be like oh well this is worth it. I just think that like it's it's um, yeah I just think the like it's as an option offered to people. Yeah, and like well I also always think when I think about this topic I always think about like the way I felt when I was like 16 or seventeen years old and unable. So thus far to get a partner and like it's just the sort of deep kind of insane need I had. Wasn't good I just don't think that's good for anything in society I think that like there are certain men who wind up doing crazy things just because yeah, their their hormones are haywire young young men and I I just think like society should have ah an escape valve for that.
  • [34:55] Keith: Yeah, Okay I agree ah a couple episodes ago or maybe it was even longer you covered a topic where a woman was complaining that. She could never masturbate because her boyfriend would always find out. Actually maybe we recorded that episode together. Do you remember that he and then he got like really jealous that she was masturbating and she said that he would check my browser History. He would always find out somehow and.
  • [35:13] Mike: Yes.
  • [35:26] Keith: That got me thinking about what kind of surveillance and insane persons could set up to try to know when their partner is masturbating so you know my first piece of advice to that girl would be to use incognito mode in her web browser so that he can't check your history that one's that 1 ne's pretty obvious. But I mean what other kinds of things I mean I guess he could set up a camera and it's just ah.
  • [35:54] Mike: Um, it's really hard to know frankly, if a woman is masturbating. It's much easier to catch a man like ah it's like I would there was there have been 2 incidents in the last week in the United States here of ah people getting caught in baseball stadiums having sex.
  • [36:12] Mike: And in both cases like the one was a woman giving a man a blow and the other was they were She was actually on top of him this happens sort of frequently right? It's not earth-shattering news but ah.
  • [36:17] Keith: Okay.
  • [36:26] Mike: It's the man's external appendage right? I mean if a woman was in a baseball stadium just with a small vibrator like nobody would notice she she was doing there there'd almost be no way to know like so I sort of think that this could only apply to catching a man I think that a woman and also like what percentage of women even use porn. It's not that high and so.
  • [36:42] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [36:45] Mike: Yeah I mean fibrator in her bed or wherever Okay, so she'd have to hide the vibrator but like I don't think a camera would detect it because it's It's just not obvious what she's doing.
  • [36:57] Keith: Um, what other ways could you Surveil like is there some other right I think that was the primary I mean.
  • [37:01] Mike: And this is why chastity cages exist.
  • [37:11] Keith: The ostensible reason was to save them from getting raped right.
  • [37:13] Mike: Oh I don't think chasity I don't think they're a real thing I think it's like a pdsm thing I would say this though again, they're going to work much better on the man like it's pretty hard actually to envision a thing you could put on a woman that would actually stop her from sneaking a vibrator in there like I think that I could I'm a decent engineer I think I could come up with a.
  • [37:26] Keith: Right.
  • [37:32] Mike: Like whatever you give me unless you like encase the woman's body in Jelain or something I think I and even then you could like vibrate the ge and I think I could come up with something that would vibrate her clitoris. It's pretty hard I think to stop.
  • [37:42] Keith: Ah, yeah, yeah I think so too.
  • [37:47] Mike: You'd be like a video game made off that like you have to come up with the come up with the masturbatory technique. Yeah.
  • [37:53] Keith: Right? Yeah, Okay I just was sort of giggling to myself imagining imagining the like surveillance apparatus this guy had so that he could always know when she'd been masturbating like he's chicks the laundry hamper to see if there's any like wetness on the panties and like has. Ah, secret camera inside of ah the Kleenex box and you know blah Blah Blah I don't know.
  • [38:16] Mike: Yeah, that's strange I mean yeah I would assume that there be a lot of false positives. He'd just be yelling at her a lot. She'd say I didn't do it just he just assumed she did.
  • [38:21] Keith: Um.
  • [38:33] Keith: All right, Let's move on um are beards adaptive. Are there Any reasons for a woman to be attracted to a beard.
  • [38:41] Mike: Well I think that it's I mean I of course nobody's going to know the exact answer to that. But I mean I think that anything that's a Gen I mean anything that's a gender that like genders people is and like I always think I've mentioned this before on the podcast but like I always find it very interesting that I find. Women's crotches so compelling because there's just it's the lack of something that I'm attracted to yeah or like yeah if they're wearing I mean pretty much all female clothes that aren't like a dress really are designed to accentuate the lack of any sort of bulge there. That's always how the design is extremely attractive to me. But it's funny because you're attracted to.
  • [39:03] Keith: Right? There's no bump.
  • [39:19] Mike: Literally nothing and so yeah and so I guess on some level you're attracted to women because they don't have beards. Um, and so yeah I'm sure it's like but like but yeah, does it serve any purpose I Probably not ah it's just masculine.
  • [39:30] Keith: It is masculine so in what circumstances is it better to be clean shaven Maybe if you have like a really strong jaw line or something.
  • [39:43] Mike: Yeah, there are people that look better and worse with a beard or clean. You also say this like I've said this before like gay porn where one of the guys has a mustache or a beard is way more repugnant to me, but it's because it accentuates like let's say a guy is giving a blow to another guy I'm not going to watch that to beat off. Regardless, but like when the guy giving the blow has a beard. It's much harder for me to deal with it's like it's just so gross.
  • [40:05] Keith: Yeah, yeah, I feel the same and I don't watch much but even in ah, right, even in a heterosexual porn I don't like it when the men.
  • [40:12] Mike: But when I do they're clean shaven.
  • [40:20] Mike: It's sort of common in mmf scenes for one of them to be bearded and so which I am not mfm mmf typically don't like scenes that have 2 men that much anyway. But like when it yeah, it's the beard and mustache make it harder anyway.
  • [40:26] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [40:34] Keith: Yeah, my guest would be in gay porn. It's good to have one of the men at least with a beard because then whether or not the person likes a beard or clean shaven they could just pick whichever person. They want to focus on.
  • [40:49] Mike: It's really hard for me to ideate around what gay men find compelling about gay porn like it's gayness is writ. It's very hard. That's the thing. It's extremely hard for a straight man to understand on any level What that's like yeah.
  • [40:56] Keith: Yeah, yeah I mean I Guess the reason why I was thinking about it is there are certain races that like don't have much facial hair and I don't think there's anything maladaptive about that I don't think. Yeah I think it's basically some people look better with Beards Some people look better without and there isn't like some sort of general rule.
  • [41:21] Mike: I think that generally when there's a trait that so so I I think that that I was thinking about this yesterday I think I was walking through a university which is one a really nice pastime of all I see all the ladies out there and there's summer where and I was thinking to myself.
  • [41:33] Keith: Yes, indeed.
  • [41:40] Mike: That the most So so certain human traits are everybody kind of as the same generally like how your legs work or your yeah most most parts of your body. Everybody's the same women's breasts I think may be the most the other way like kind of heterogeneous like. Clearly there's no adaptive benefit to large or small breasts. It's just some sort of taste thing and I I derive that from the fact that like yeah I mean like you just have complete randomness there and I think this a similar thing. Yeah.
  • [42:07] Keith: Hold on I don't think that's exactly true I think women who I think generally breast size ah correlates with weight and so it can be some sort of Health marker.
  • [42:19] Mike: If I mean the problem is if that were true. Sure I mean you're you're basically you're basically explaining why men like large breast. Yeah, in general. But if that were really really strongly true just in the same way that like men. Well okay, there's a couple things.
  • [42:26] Keith: Yeah.
  • [42:37] Mike: Female traits are are I think less selected for than male traits because in evolutionarily speaking like pretty much every woman is going to get pregnant. Ah, even if you're really really ugly some guy will come along and impregnate. You whereas not every guy evolutionarily is going to have a kit and so there's so that that's a so so you could say okay.
  • [42:46] Keith: Um, yeah, yep, yep.
  • [42:56] Mike: Yeah fecundity like large breasts imply fecundity and so men are attracted to that and that's true, but that doesn't mean the small breasted woman will not have a baby she will and so it's so that's the point. It's not selected for and I think that beards are probably the same. It's like it just doesn't it.
  • [43:04] Keith: Agreed.
  • [43:10] Keith: I see.
  • [43:13] Mike: There's yeah, there's not a whole lot of selective pressure on there like there would be for example for men to have larger muscles that like is strongly selected for because you know prehistorically being a stronger man would matter right? or and and frankly being.
  • [43:22] Keith: Right.
  • [43:28] Mike: Like your iq like there's some selection probably pressure. That's why we're way smarter than chimpanzees. There was selection pressure to to get people smarter and smarter and then it all stopped in like 1968
  • [43:32] Keith: Right? Yeah I could right? Yeah I I think there's some sort of I find it confusing that there are major things that can affect how a man looks. Like whether or not he has chest hair or whether or not he has facial hair and whether or not women want that seems to be almost completely random like there's no major.
  • [44:04] Mike: It's just these are just tray. It's like labia or kind of like butt size breast size for women. Yeah, these are things that are not important but but but all women like a man with okay when I say all I mean ninety plus percent of women like a man with sort of the triangle of musculature on the shoulders.
  • [44:07] Keith: Or hair color.
  • [44:19] Keith: Um, yeah, right.
  • [44:22] Mike: With a thin waist with like abs that are defined with muscles like no no woman finds like a fat man attractive I mean she she'll tolerate it. But it's not attractive right? So those are that's strongly selected for the dad bought craze in my opinion is.
  • [44:30] Keith: Um, okay, notwithstanding, notwithstanding the the dad Bod craze that seems to be.
  • [44:39] Keith: Um, yes.
  • [44:40] Mike: Would you agree? that's primarily coming from Tiktok. Okay, and in my opinion that's just straight up because I am I I think I have a better than dad bo but like I could I could identify a little bit with it. It doesn't really matter there you go. Ah.
  • [44:51] Keith: Dead face.
  • [44:56] Mike: The Ah well anybody but above a certain age is gonna have a dad face but the ah well it doesn't that is like women. There can be selective pressure for a woman to be interested in older guys like I think that's somewhat common but the but the dad bod thing I think is very clearly associated which is women trying to.
  • [44:57] Keith: Yeah, unfortunately.
  • [45:06] Keith: Indeed.
  • [45:14] Mike: Push men to only fans. It's they're just trying to make money. It's like this the women who purport to do that if you look at their profile and stuff you're going to find some only fans stuff most of the time.
  • [45:22] Keith: Oh man. Okay, we need we need a Dan Dad bot aficionado to write in and volunteer to come on the show you can duke it out with Mike on this.
  • [45:32] Mike: So you think that there are genuine Dad Bodificionado women out there like a significant number.
  • [45:42] Keith: Um I don't know exactly yes and I I don't know exactly what's going on. But I think it's something like are you aware of like the the Hashtag girl dad. It's like.
  • [45:47] Mike: Yeah, okay.
  • [45:58] Mike: No oh just means that it's someone with a daughter.
  • [46:03] Keith: There's something about yeah, like there's something about like watching a man be nurturing to a child that I think can be attractive to women and.
  • [46:12] Mike: Yeah I heard about that but I'll tell you like when I had my children were small and I would let go to the playground. So I I actually paid attention to this I was like it's like they tell you like oh when you get your wedding ring. You're going to get hit on all the time and I didn't see that maybe I'm just not attractive enough and like with.
  • [46:23] Keith: Right? right? right.
  • [46:28] Mike: Kids and stuff like no it was not not nothing happened like that I would have I I would have been pleasant but I had no such experiences and I sort of when I tried to I was curious about that and and and did some amount of effort to go into situations where that could arise and it never did which is probably a.
  • [46:41] Keith: Um, yeah huh.
  • [46:46] Mike: Commentary on my attractiveness actually but but like if you're saying oh they're liking dad bods. Okay.
  • [46:49] Keith: I'm not sure I mean you know if you took bread Pitt and you put him in a bar and he had a wedding ring on in 1 circumstance and not in the other and it's not actually Brad Pitt is somebody who's good looking. Um, what happens I don't. And I'm not sure. There may be some minimum level of attractiveness to be able to test that 3 I'm not sure.
  • [47:07] Mike: Yeah, what is by the way. What do you think the body fat percentage to be a dad bought is would your guest be trying to figure out now where I'm at so like.
  • [47:19] Keith: Um, yeah, you're not, you're not meant to be fat. It's certainly not obese and not really even fat. There's yeah dough doughy I guess I think ah, there's 1 other thing I wanted to say about this. So yeah, my my first thought was that it. Ah.
  • [47:26] Mike: 24 or 23 or something oh that? Yeah maybe 25
  • [47:34] Keith: Implies like ah willingness to be interested in children. Ah and the second thing is I think some women I've actually heard this ah from friends of Alyssa's and from other people I've dated.
  • [47:41] Mike: Peace.
  • [47:54] Keith: When you see somebody. Ah, for example on tinder and you know it's obvious that they're a trailrunner or they're really into triathhellons or they're you know they're into crossfit a lot of women just don't want to deal with that like look I want to like come home and watch Netflix and the ice cream and not feel guilty about that.
  • [48:12] Mike: Do.
  • [48:14] Keith: And so in that sense because women probably aren't as hyper focused on sexual attractiveness as as men are it might be that they're willing to consider dad bods more. And in some cases may even prefer them if they think that it implies other things about their personality.
  • [48:31] Mike: Yes, let me just say I'll just quickly say the thing that I immediately thought when you brought up this this other than the fact that it's only fans chicks just trying to yeah, get a certain age guy that has some money and what I immediately thought is well a woman would be attracted to a dad bod because then.
  • [48:41] Keith: Right? right.
  • [48:51] Mike: He's safer like he's not going to just cheat on them all the time like if you're too attractive. They're like oh this is the I K you're yeah so yeah, basically right she knows what's going to happen, especially if she's not hyper attractive like yeah, there's There's a significant risk there.
  • [48:55] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [48:58] Keith: This is going to be a pain.
  • [49:10] Mike: And that's probably right.
  • [49:10] Keith: Yeah, it could be you said the same thing about the woman who gave her boyfriend a blowjob at any time card or something and yeah your hypothesis was.
  • [49:19] Mike: Oh yeah, That's what that is and then he wanted to he wanted to use it when they were in the middle of an argument which yeah, it's like it's like what like you if you if you believe that this card or this thing is going to last like why would you. Immediately then use it by the way I saw a porn this morning because that's what I do in the morning it was and I was curious if this would it was I thought it was a really good one I could I could find it for you. Maybe I'll put it in the show notes. But the ah it was a woman masturbating.
  • [49:41] Keith: Yeah, but yeah as you do.
  • [49:56] Mike: It's from it's it's it's from a subred called Jack and Jill so it's basically a man and a woman masturbating and then sort of orgasming around the same time. It was one of the top of all time I think or the last year for it anyway, the guy is beating off with his cock very close to the woman's mouth. She's masturbating she says something like I'm close.
  • [50:02] Keith: Okay, yeah.
  • [50:12] Keith: Um.
  • [50:15] Mike: Which I took is believable. Although I know my past history is to say that women shouldn't say things like that. But it It was sort of whispered in a way that didn't it wasn't porny and then he nuts in her mouth or like kind of yeah in her Mouth. He puts so the nut goes in her mouth and then she orgasms and it's clearly enjoying that part of it like. Does that sound believable to you like that would enhance like you who don't like getting blows would that like scenario be compelling to you like if the woman was like look like it amps up my orgasm if like if you're coming in my mouth at the same time or around the same time so you know oh.
  • [50:47] Keith: Yeah, it would I just.
  • [50:51] Mike: That might be a way for you to enjoy our blowjobs more like to have the girl masturbate and then you know, maybe it's too complicated of a ballet that you have to orchestrate there.
  • [50:58] Keith: Yeah.
  • [51:06] Keith: Yeah, and I'm I'm meditating on this briefly. Yeah I don't think that's easily reproducible. No, it's as you say like I think the ballet of like her.
  • [51:17] Mike: Why not? because yeah, why not.
  • [51:25] Keith: Being about to or get val. Yeah maybe yeah yeah, she can reliably do it and time it huh.
  • [51:28] Mike: Um, I mean women can typically I mean to a woman who is orgasmic to typically masturbating works for her and so she just has to right? and so then you yeah, you just have to I mean I have done this activity before and actually to be honest, it's. For me, it's It's a little bit on it was the porn was quite compelling because I focused on the woman. However, in real life I Want more focus on me I think when I'm in that stage Arousal and so it's actually kind of annoying to me to have the woman focused on herself.
  • [51:57] Keith: Yeah, yeah. Yeah I would expect. There would be something like the 69 situation where giving and receiving simultaneously makes it hard to do but either very well it's.
  • [52:04] Mike: Ah, that a little bit. Yeah.
  • [52:15] Mike: Well, the key is that this guy is just beating off and then sort of placing the come into her mouth. He's he's just shooting the come into her mouth or whatever like he's not. She's not really giving him a blow. But so maybe you could fair point you could say oh that's not a blow. But I if I understand your concern correctly like you. Assume women don't want a man to ejaculate in their mouth and that's part of your Concern. So.
  • [52:36] Keith: Yeah I guess right? I guess I didn't understand that she was not giving a blowjob. She was just providing a receptacle. Yeah, it is or would be if I if I was adequately convinced that.
  • [52:44] Mike: Which is kind of hot I mean.
  • [52:56] Keith: That was something they actually wanted please save your emails crowd I perceive plenty of feedback on how I'm crazy on this topic.
  • [52:57] Mike: Right? It might also be hard for you to.
  • [53:08] Mike: We might yeah we might ah it might be difficult for you to arrange this. You'd have to have like the sleeping bag right up against her face and rubbing yourself against the sleeping bag.
  • [53:14] Keith: Now I can I can come reliably as it discussed earlier in in certain situations I think within three or four minutes yeah
  • [53:22] Mike: Right? You guys could do like a joint race like a see who you gets there first.
  • [53:29] Keith: Yeah, yeah, all right? Well when Alissa here says she can come to me with ah a request if she likes.
  • [53:38] Mike: Judging from her feedback on your conversation about threesomes. She'll be all over it I mean she's asking you for a threesome. So.
  • [53:42] Keith: Yeah, I'm already anticipating the the follow up conversation I'm going to have with her about this.
  • [53:49] Mike: You've still just not willing to do the threesome.
  • [53:53] Keith: Ah I'm willing to do it threesome. It's just I need to be persuaded that the downside risks are are minimized.
  • [54:02] Mike: You know, being in another country seems a good way to do that because got it.
  • [54:09] Keith: Well finding the third is always the challenge and when we return to the country which we will be soon. Maybe we will redouble our efforts on this front or at least we can ah set up a a project and and ah. Project management things so that it can report back results I I just don't think that finding a third is going to be as easy as she thinks it is.
  • [54:31] Mike: Has Alyssa continued to do the thing that I forgot the word for where she puts her vagina scent on her neck or did she stop doing it so she stopped okay double check with her on that.
  • [54:40] Keith: Oh yeah, ah vaping no vabbing fabbing right? I perceive. Maybe maybe she's been doing it every other day I'll for not.
  • [54:50] Mike: Well, it would just show that you don't you have no idea she'd say yeah I keep doing it and you just don't notice.
  • [54:57] Keith: Yeah, yeah, it could be um I think we have time for 1 more quick topic. Ah you mentioned briefly differences in the sex technique.
  • [55:03] Mike: Yep.
  • [55:10] Keith: Of circumcised versus uncircumcised gentlemen. Yeah, so okay, can you can you refresh my memory on what her advice was.
  • [55:13] Mike: Ah, yes, the Tiktok lady who tells you to scoot. Yes.
  • [55:21] Mike: Yeah, so essentially yeah I felt like I was being a little inarticulate when I talked about I think it was last week so right so and if like if you're so if you're tightly circumcised then your cock is sort of like a.
  • [55:27] Keith: Okay, here's your chance.
  • [55:38] Mike: Like a plastic dildo on some level like it's just there's no give in the forest can or very limited limited give and so there's an obvious thing you're going to do. You're going to put it in take it out. Put it in take it out like it's just the sort of standard like it right? So you know? yeah so just like I mean yeah, it's the it's the most basic motion.
  • [55:46] Keith: Right? Because that's how you get the sliding stimulation on your shaft.
  • [55:57] Mike: And the problem of course is that That's not actually that stimulating for the woman because her clit is not in her vagina for the most part I mean there's part of the clip sort of I realize it has like an internal body to it stuff like that. But like the most sensitive part is not there. So the way to stimulate that.
  • [56:08] Keith: Right.
  • [56:14] Mike: There's something called Coital Alignment technique that does this but essentially it's basically you endeavor to have sex as a man such that your bodies like your pelvis is are touching the whole time. Ah so you kind of trap her clip between your pubic bones and you and and and and basically the technique is that you.
  • [56:25] Keith: Yep, right.
  • [56:33] Mike: Are moving your penis in her vagina but not pulling it withdrawing it all the way and my impression is that ah that is much more stimulating for a less circumcised or uncircumcised guy Because. You have you He does have the foreskin that can kind of roll up over the head of his cock and stimulate it even if he withdraws it just a small amount like a couple like maybe an inch whereas for a circumcised guy like there's to unless you're somehow like stimulating her cervix or something unless there's some deep structure in there. You're able to touch with the head of your cock like you're just.
  • [57:01] Keith: Sure.
  • [57:04] Mike: Most of the stimulation is going to be at the base of your cock which is much less stimulating and so it's actually and you see this in Por a lot a lot a lot the like guys when they need to come. You know do the more sort of full out and in technique and so.
  • [57:18] Keith: Right.
  • [57:22] Mike: Yeah, that's basically it So this woman calls it scooting but what she yeah what she means is just that like you're not withdrawing very far. You're just sort of keeping contact and and withdrawing a very small amount and maybe withdrawing by angling your pelvis back and forth a bit while maintaining contact.
  • [57:32] Keith: Sure Yeah, you're you're trying to maintain pressure on the clit. Okay, so this all makes sense I would expect that with sufficiently large sample sizes that women would report sex feeling more satisfying with size men. Everything else being equal.
  • [57:51] Mike: With circumcised or I think that's right I think I I don't I'm not sure. There's any like actual principled research that's been done on this but I mean I've anecdotally read that a lot of times. Ah the women saying yeah like they're yeah like their partner does things that are more stimulate.
  • [57:52] Keith: No with uncircumcisement.
  • [58:00] Keith: Um, huh.
  • [58:08] Mike: That being said I mean this is ah I guess a point of questioning between us that we have like while the claim is made typically in the literature that something like 30 to 50% of women can orgasm from intercourse alone. I usually think that that's specific like techniques that are going on I actually think that like just in a typical interscourse session. The odds of the woman orgasming are under 10 percent that's what I that's what I actually think.
  • [58:39] Keith: Yeah, that's that may be right I think it is a hundred but you know for every hundred there's 10 Zeros right? Nine zeroes yeah, ah.
  • [58:42] Mike: I thought for you was a hundred ok right? Okay, it's just not you. It's not your partner. It's 10 other right.
  • [58:56] Keith: Ah, it's interesting because almost every woman I've talked to and almost every woman that I've slept with is American and so this is not ah, a wide enough sample prefer or think they prefer circumcised penises. Generally they complain that uncircumcised penises look weird but that. Again, It's probably because almost all their experience is seeing circumcised penuses.
  • [59:20] Mike: It's kind of funny because it's it's it's ironic and I'm sure all of them basically would admit this if challenged on it that they would say such a thing because there's this whole. Um, kind of woke made wokes too strong a word, but there's this whole kind of concern around. Laboplasty and shaming women for having large labia and stuff like that and that's exactly what they would be doing and the exact same women I'm sure would say oh no, you should never shame a woman and you're like but you're basically demanding that men get a surgery to fit your standard of of attractiveness.
  • [59:37] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [59:48] Keith: Yeah I have seen profiles that actually request they say no one circumcised men please.
  • [59:57] Mike: I Wonder if they do that because they find that it it's I Wonder if that excludes certain demographic groups if you know what I mean like I don't actually know what the different odds are of being circumcised and uncicumcised but it could be that that that they just find.
  • [01:00:17] Keith: It might be but people are usually especially in the Bay area are so concerned with being sensitive to that kind of stuff that they wouldn't want to virtue signal that they care about that unless yeah I'm not sure it could be but I think it's that they.
  • [01:00:17] Mike: There's some ulterior motive there.
  • [01:00:32] Mike: Who would I have a question this is like on Tinder This is on tinder that's and have you ever. That's that's a pretty aggressive thing to put on tinder.
  • [01:00:37] Keith: Prefer Unsartupsized penis. Yeah.
  • [01:00:44] Keith: I Agree it's normally women who are fantastically attractive and probably have like you know, basically everyone on Tinder is already liked them and so they're basically trying to set up outrageous filters because basically no matter what they do.
  • [01:01:01] Mike: Ah, ah huh.
  • [01:01:03] Keith: Everyone's interested right? like I might say like I prefer women to be between five seven and five seven and a half if I had infinite supply right? I just don't and so I don't put up ridiculous filters.
  • [01:01:14] Mike: But you think that typically a woman a woman if if you accept the premise that a woman is typically on a dating app to get a relationship and not just to get casual sex which I think is typically the case.
  • [01:01:26] Keith: Yeah I agree.
  • [01:01:30] Mike: It's really hard to understand why a woman would filter based on that because it has nothing to do with having a good relationship with somebody and so she's just removing a substantial amount of the playing field. Yeah I guess maybe she just figures. Oh there's a million guys out there that would all be equivalent as like a husband for me so I'm just going I just need to narrow it somehow maybe.
  • [01:01:47] Keith: Bright.
  • [01:01:49] Mike: But but yeah and it's surprising to me that woman would care that much about that like typically yeah, that's not a major and also I keep in mind that a circumcised an uncircumcised guy could get circumcised so it's not like it's even. Permanent condition if if if it was a real actual long-running problem for her. She could like fix him if you know.
  • [01:02:11] Keith: You're right? they should She should modify what she says from ah circumcised men only or show me your doctor's appointment and then right.
  • [01:02:22] Mike: Or Express willingness to give certain? Yeah, but that's and I and and just I actually think as a circumcised guy myself so I'm not shaming anything here or whatever I'm not trying to be elitist the ah I think they're just making a mistake like I I strongly suspect that actually. It's somewhat better to have sex with an uncircumcised guy. There is data like around like uncircumcised men ah spread ah more likely to transmit H I V Apparently but setting aside things like that.
  • [01:02:45] Keith: Yeah I think that's a de Minimis concern in most circles right? right.
  • [01:02:54] Mike: Right? Like Monkey Pox If you're not a homosexual man. It's probably not going to happen.
  • [01:03:05] Keith: Ah, well if you have anything else you want to offer us Mike okay, that'll do it for episode eighty two eighty two yeah 82 of your mileage may vary.
  • [01:03:07] Mike: Um, no, it's it.
  • [01:03:17] Keith: We famously pay $10 for any feedback we received so to get that chedar send us feedback at ymmvpod on Twitter or by email at Ymmv Pod At gmail.com thanks for listening and we look forward to having you join us next time.