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Episode 85: Beautiful Sugar Babies, Breeding Kinks, Pubic Grooming, Phone Porn During Sex?

Team YMMV | 9-29-2022 | 1:05:16

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The stunning looks of the sugar baby we discuss are only matched by how quickly she's removed from the Sugar Lifestyle Forum subreddit, suggesting either a catfishing scenario or something equally nefarious. Like most good things, profiteers are descending on the great Sugar Kingdom, decreasing the value for everyone.

Keith assumes men generally should have a kink around "breeding," since it is what their bodies are designed to do, but Mike has a different take.

And, what is the modern sensibility around pubic-hair grooming? It would appear that complete removal by a woman on or about the third date is essentially required to avoid embarrassment.

We get a lot of our questions from the Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/85/breeding

https://ymmv.me/85/grooming

https://ymmv.me/85/phone-habit

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is controversial but mostly in good faith I am Keith my co-host is Mike hello mike we decided or I decided last episode that we were going to banter about.
  • [00:10] Mike: Um, hi Keith.
  • [00:18] Keith: Our weeks at the beginning of beginnings of our episode. Do you have anything? okay.
  • [00:23] Mike: Yeah I have something to talk about. Ah so assiduous listeners will know that within the last month or two I had a early teenage girl come to my house and draw something a hopscotch.
  • [00:38] Keith: Um.
  • [00:41] Mike: Um, game on my driveway with all of the sexualities that she's aware of which was a lot of them. Um, yesterday I had ah some more teenage girls. Ah young teens twenty like 13 at my house now. No and one of them so we had dinner.
  • [00:54] Keith: Including this same. Okay. We should mention Mike has a young teenage daughter. That's why presumably? That's why these people are over.
  • [00:59] Mike: Um, out on like our deck and.
  • [01:06] Mike: Yeah, this isn't like the yeah, they're really the um yeah, it's not creepy. This is just completely normal. You know we had dinner we had we you know ordered some food. There were like maybe 7 of us and then all but 1 of them left to go watch anime shows not porn anime just like you know.
  • [01:11] Keith: Yay.
  • [01:24] Mike: Normal robots killing people right? right? We got hulu or something so they can watch that but 1 of them stayed behind and decided to start talking to me about sex now I didn't create this so i.
  • [01:24] Keith: Yes, Anna may has had a glow up ah in the United States recently
  • [01:42] Keith: How that's a little difficult to believe.
  • [01:44] Mike: Yeah I don't understand so it's not yeah yeah, it's very difficult to believe and it's very I don't so okay, yeah, my my wife was there so it was fine. It wasn't it wasn't creepy. It was. It was a little creepy but not on my side I mean I I was just trying to like.
  • [01:49] Keith: She just precociously decided to start interrogating you? Ok yeah, yeah, got it.
  • [02:03] Mike: Ah, be delicate as I could anyway, she told me that she'd ah heard she'd read on Facebook so that's how you know it's true that um, female dolphins a good point I think yeah I don't know where that came from.
  • [02:14] Keith: I'm surprised she's on Facebook.
  • [02:21] Mike: Ah, that female dolphins secrete some substance that makes male dolphins orgasm really quickly and that you could end that an experiment had been done where they took the same substance and put it on the penis of a some sort of primate and that it died because it orgasm so much I told her I didn't believe it. But.
  • [02:27] Keith: Ha.
  • [02:38] Keith: Yeah.
  • [02:40] Mike: The main point here is ah why? why? Why was she telling me that which I found sort of strange. There was some other ah similar topic and also like it's like it's like yeah I mean even even like speaking the words Even like the words that you would use in this context are kind of weird. Not words you would typically use with a person much younger than you like that. Um, my main point I'm not sure I think there was some there was some other topic like that that came up. Ah, my main point is that like I don't think early teenage girls should do that.
  • [03:02] Keith: Yes.
  • [03:17] Mike: Should talk to much older men about topics like this now I happen to be upstanding honorable man who will not be confused by that kind of conversation but it became clear to me I'm like this is just not a good decision like this I thought this is why. There are certain taboos about this stuff is because if you replace me with a guy who's not well-adjusted in these particular ways like something strange could happen.
  • [03:39] Keith: Right? Yeah yeah, the onus is entirely on the adult to be the responsible person and.
  • [03:49] Mike: It is but but but but I think there have been cultural changes which and which and partly that plus access to like internet media that makes it so that girls who are sort of curious or whatever have fewer taboos about these kinds of conversations and the concern I would have is that. Ah.
  • [03:53] Keith: Oh.
  • [04:02] Keith: I say.
  • [04:05] Mike: A less mature less well-adjusted in this way man might get confused when this topic comes up and become excited and that's disastrous.
  • [04:10] Keith: Okay, and so ah, okay, so ah, the prevailing winds of of our culture are that young people should feel more comfortable talking to adults and amongst themselves but in in this case, we're. Discuss talking about talking to adults about sex and ah to the extent that maybe ah that can get some of their questions answered and having an inability to get questions answered could have been problematic in the past that has been potentially replaced with the new.
  • [04:26] Mike: Right.
  • [04:44] Keith: But the new problem which is ah.
  • [04:46] Mike: Um I think it's the problem that probably these sorts of taboos were created to address which is that or you know maybe not created evolved to address which is that Ah, there's a pretty fine line if you're talking to a young woman about these types of topics.
  • [04:50] Keith: I say.
  • [05:03] Mike: There's a pretty fine line between a scientific conversation and like flirting right? and so then it's then it then for now not to be clear. Ah for me, it was not. It was a very bright line and always is however I can imagine that for some substantial percentage of the population. Never forget I mean just as we.
  • [05:08] Keith: I agree I agree. Um, right.
  • [05:23] Mike: Ah, you know 10% of the population has too low of an iq in the us to be inducted into the military a military has iq-based standards. Ah so that gives you an idea of like there. You know there is some people might be surprised by like this were the depths you can plumb in terms of intelligence. The same thing goes for sort of. Eq around these sorts of things they're going to be men who just don't ah are not as well adjusted about this and and and so you said it's incumbent on the adult. But I don't that's not totally right. I mean if you're a a young woman like if you just start going around having these conversations with men pretty quickly. You know 20 Twenty thirty men in you're going to encounter a man who's not going to behave properly.
  • [06:03] Keith: Yeah I mean this is tricky I mean I don't know if this is a good analogy or not but you you know there's a camp that says that women should not dress ah should not be scantily clad and dressing and. Certain ways when they when they go out in the evenings and then the other camp says like well women should be allowed to wear whatever they want and ah you know who are we to control what women are wearing ah and I think the same sort of rhetoric might. Be used here which is yeah, there's probably some negative consequences to on average to dressing in a certain way or being open about conversations with your elders. Ah, but. People should just be allowed to do it and it's it's entirely the fault of ah the people taking advantage of the situation and that's the only thing that should be discussed.
  • [07:09] Mike: Sure from I mean from a legal and perhaps moral ethical perspective. That's true I would point out. Yeah I mean ah well, the reality is that I mean first of all, there are lots of when you talk about what people wear and things like that there are you have to draw a distinction between a child and an adult.
  • [07:11] Keith: But from a pragmatic perspective.
  • [07:26] Mike: And some line has to be drawn. There. So here. We're definitely on the child side of the the line and so there are lots of restrictions. You can't drive a car or you can't drink alcohol. There's all kind of you know, can't vote. There's all kinds of things that are on that side of the line and so um, of course someone who's twenty years old like ah, that's they're an adult. So. Totally different situation. Ah, and yeah I mean these these sort of strictures exist partly to protect the child from having some kind of a ah bad experience that would while not their fault would be something they'd have to deal with like for the rest of their life psychologically. Ah.
  • [08:01] Keith: Right.
  • [08:03] Mike: And yeah, no I is tricky. It's tricky because yes, it's true that society is trying to tell people to be more open and so forth. But at the same time it doesn't I I'm not sure that's the right thing to do.
  • [08:14] Keith: Yeah I mean Ah, ah I think people should be able to say and do you know, have conversations with whomever they like and be able to dress. However, they like without ah suffering any negative consequences of that. But that doesn't mean I don't think. There aren't on average more negative consequences of that and so you just sort of have to decide. Um, if that's the Hill You want to die on and if it is That's fine, but but just acknowledge that there's a little bit of an increased risk.
  • [08:36] Mike: Sure.
  • [08:43] Mike: So along those same lines. This is a little bit older I just sent you a link that I can post in the show notes if I remember um this is um butterfly away one two four on Reddit who posted 4 hours ago before a recording of this. She wanted a um.
  • [08:47] Keith: I see it? yep.
  • [09:00] Mike: She's from South Carolina looks to be pretty young but you know an adult this is by the way someone posting a profile review on seeking arrangement or rather foreeing arrangement to these sugar lifestyle forum. Um, what do you think about this young lady.
  • [09:02] Keith: Yeah, yes.
  • [09:17] Keith: I Don't think anything she says in her profile text will matter she she will be overwhelmed by by interest ah because she is attractive.
  • [09:21] Mike: Um, ah, that's and why would you say that is.
  • [09:28] Mike: What level of attractive. Are you thinking here.
  • [09:33] Keith: Um, quite I mean as you pointed out. It's a little bit awkward because she could be anywhere from like 19 to 24 yeah
  • [09:45] Mike: Let's assume she's over eighteen so we don't have any weird in this case, let's let's move past the the child strictures I assume she is she would not ah be entitled to be on that site if she were under eighteen. Yeah.
  • [09:50] Keith: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, she she has this sort of like Dallas Cowboys cheerleader look I would say although her breasts appear to be real and the pictures that she has provided.
  • [10:09] Mike: Okay, ah so is this somebody that you would contact if you had if you were if if she showed up in a search on seeking dot com.
  • [10:18] Keith: I Might although this person seems like ah she just seems she just feels so young like I feel like every conversation with her would be just you can. You couldn't have an interesting conversation I don't think I could have an interesting conversation with someone like this.
  • [10:37] Mike: Oh really see you'd be concerned is that because because she's too attractive or because she she yeah I mean she says in her profile that she's studying at Community College She works a part time job. Um.
  • [10:48] Keith: Okay I can't I don't have vision in any of that. But ah what you sent me are oh I can I have to click see see if you image or whatever. Yeah, yeah, you may as well.
  • [10:52] Mike: I sent you the link. Oh you can scroll through so when you go to that link I sent you now I think I have to post it onto the yeah, there's I think 3 pages to it.
  • [11:06] Keith: Um, ah I see.
  • [11:09] Mike: This is I mean so there's a it's fairly frequent that there is a um profile review requested on Sugar Lifestyle Forum All essentially all the time I mean I don't know how so I will generally click on them because why not and this one was surprising.
  • [11:14] Keith: Just yeah.
  • [11:22] Keith: Yeah.
  • [11:29] Mike: In its ah little height of its quality. This is maybe the best one I've ever seen in terms of attractiveness I was like yeah I agree with you. It's like what but this if she's going to repel anyone. It's going to be because she's so attractive. The guys are like well.
  • [11:30] Keith: Yeah.
  • [11:42] Keith: Right? Yeah I mean her pictures imply that the her. The only thing that she cares about in life is being attractive right? So like every single picture here.
  • [11:45] Mike: I Have no chance even with though with a sugar dating situation.
  • [12:01] Keith: Is okay so the first picture is a mere selfie the second picture is she's driving her car and she's taking a selfie of herself all driving. Ah, the third picture is posed maybe at a farm or an equestrian center. Um.
  • [12:02] Mike: Are. Um, yeah.
  • [12:13] Mike: So she likes being near horses.
  • [12:17] Keith: There's a bunch of there's There's a mere selfie in a bikini. There's another picture in a bikini. Yes, she's athletic is it's just that her entire existence revolves around the way she looks so I I feel like you would be almost.
  • [12:21] Mike: Um, it's one where she looks like she might be playing volleyball or with her volleyball team.
  • [12:37] Keith: It's not the the what's the right word here. It would be. It's like unfair interacting with a person like this. She's just so naive about everything and it it would. She's not on seeking because you know.
  • [12:45] Mike: Um, ah, interesting.
  • [12:55] Keith: She's sort of precocious and and cleverly trying to you know turn her attractiveness into a little bit of extra money. She's just sort of I don't know I don't don't know exactly what I'm trying to say here and I don't think.
  • [13:10] Mike: Um, is this is this are are you speaking from experience from having like chatted with women that look like this or come across like this on seeking or is this just your kind of first kind of hot take.
  • [13:19] Keith: No I think I have occasionally interacted with people who look like this who it's not the wish it's not just the way she looks Mike it's the way she presents like a normal person doesn't present this way.
  • [13:24] Mike: Okay.
  • [13:31] Mike: Ah.
  • [13:33] Mike: Okay.
  • [13:36] Keith: Like she presents this way because all she thinks about all day is how to present herself right? like everything she does is about getting a picture and it's I mean she's very pretty but I just think that interacting with her would be sort of.
  • [13:41] Mike: Um, okay, okay.
  • [13:53] Keith: It It wouldn't just be intolerable or or intolerable as run word wouldn't just be boring. It would feel unfair.
  • [14:01] Mike: Okay, so um, most of the people listening to this podcast including me I don't think I've ever or you know much interacted with someone like this and seeing as you have could you like give a little more detail on what that interaction would be like.
  • [14:14] Keith: Sure so you see people like this on ah seeking arrangement all the time seeking arrangement by the way is seeking dot com and for those who don't know it's I mean technically they they claim that they are not set up for this.
  • [14:21] Mike: Right.
  • [14:30] Keith: But in spirit the website is created to set up sugar daddies with sugar babies a sugar daddy is typically an older wealthier man and a sugar baby is a younger, very attractive woman and the arrangement portion is ah.
  • [14:35] Mike: A.
  • [14:50] Keith: Typically either a ppm which is pay per meat or an allowance situation. So the man might give the person his his partner in this situation. Some amount of money every week or every month or they may just settle on some amount of money.
  • [15:06] Mike: And importantly, there's an expectation. There is realistically an expectation of penetrative sex when they meet realistically.
  • [15:08] Keith: Per meat.
  • [15:13] Keith: Right? Yeah, typically I think the advice given by the moderators on the subreddit and generally if you read or on the web is you have a you have a meet and greet and then. The subsequent where you established chemistry and probably discuss the details of of the financials and then all subsequent meetings would involve sex. Um I've used this website I've not used it for what it's set up for but I have used it to meet and talk to women and I've. Gone on several dates with women from the site without an arrangement set up and we talked about that on other episodes. Maybe we'll talk about it again, but it is an excellent place to be able to talk to people chat with people who look like this because the women on this site are competing with other women who.
  • [16:10] Mike: Right.
  • [16:11] Keith: Look like this and so they can't do the normal thing that they would do on Tinder Bumble or hinge which is they're aloof. They're sort of almost put out to be responding that they if they behave that way on this website then the affluent man just kind of move on to the next person who's so there's. Like a subservience aspect that is perhaps a little bit gross but is definitely an effect on seeking dot com.
  • [16:40] Mike: Sounds good to me. Okay, so what? what would be the interaction. You would ah style you would expect with this lovely young lady.
  • [16:42] Keith: So when you talk to people like this. For starters, they they often just speak in like emojis and saying L lol and with just gratuitous grammatical errors all over the place and.
  • [16:55] Mike: The.
  • [16:59] Keith: You know if you tried to correct them on their grammar or whatever they would be. They'd be like oh I just wasn't paying attention right? It they don't recognize that there's actually sort of a a difference like ah, a massive difference in. Um.
  • [17:19] Keith: Ah, them trying to not get canceled here. There's a difference in life experience and life setup that is more profound than just the difference in amount of money that the people have um, right? And if you.
  • [17:31] Mike: I see so ah, a different they they they're not aware of the different levels of erudition possible or something.
  • [17:38] Keith: Tried to set up a date with someone like this. Yeah, it won't but there won't be any sophistication right? Like you know the night this is going to come off me all right? I'm just stereotyping here I don't know this person. She might be wonderful. Ah. You know the nicest restaurant. She's been to is the Cheesecake Factory Ah, if you were to take her to you know a museum she wouldn't know who any of the artists are there's just sort of like there are young people who have who are foodies and there are young people who.
  • [18:08] Mike: Um, her.
  • [18:15] Keith: To know about the arts but this is not 1 of them based on the way she presents her entire entire life has been spent cultivating her sort of ditzy attractive ah affect.
  • [18:19] Mike: So it's so she's some. It's like her.
  • [18:27] Mike: Right? Essentially, she's been exempted from a whole series of kind of learning experiences by dint of being so attractive.
  • [18:34] Keith: And you don't you can't really even blame her for it right? It's like these and Nba athletes who everyone tells them that they're awesome from the time they're in sixth grade. It's not her fault that the most fun thing to do and the easiest thing to do at every point has have correlated. And you know she's never had to you know, take ap english or whatever. Um.
  • [18:58] Mike: Um, and does that So so okay, so you're saying that actually talking to her would be sort of a bummer ah interacting with her and so forth that makes sense how about when you actually like let's say you're able to to score would she also be boring in bed.
  • [19:15] Keith: Um I don't have that much experience with people like this but because of I mean just because of her age. It's not going to be experienced at all. It's so so.
  • [19:17] Mike: Are.
  • [19:27] Keith: My expectation and and this is again just like stereotype typing for the sake of making good radio here. She'll probably be inexperienced. She'll probably be sort of almost I don't know it could go 2 ways. She could be sort of like conservative and. Um, onadventurous or she may have like seen a bunch of Tiktok and think that like you know, eating ass and doing these like sort of non-standard things is is normal but she's unlikely to be operating based on you know what. She has thought about she wants in bed and like you know what makes her feel good. It's more likely to be some sort of performative thing.
  • [20:09] Mike: And you don't think that the increased blood flow to your penis that you would get by by virtue of her attractiveness is worth that.
  • [20:21] Keith: It might be but ah the biggest problem with someone like this is I feel like I'm taking advantage of them even if I you know? well I mean I've never given any money in a situation like this. But even if I thought I was being like a perfect gentleman.
  • [20:27] Mike: Um, huh.
  • [20:39] Keith: And you know it was very upfront with what I was looking for and all this kind of stuff it just the intellectual gap between me and a person like this is is such that I could guess I could gaslight them into basically whatever situation I would like.
  • [20:49] Mike: Oof.
  • [20:54] Mike: That's brutal, you're making it sound like she's like Lenin of mice and men like she's a real idiot ooh yeah, it's interesting because I think you could imagine you feeling that way but then simultaneously well put it this way like there are men.
  • [20:58] Keith: I mean compared to me she may be.
  • [21:11] Mike: In that situation would feel exactly the opposite they would feel like you know they're getting something that's way above. They're punching way above their weight. They're getting something way more valuable than what they're entitled to or you know worth.
  • [21:22] Keith: Yes I can imagine many men finding this the sort of apex of what they're looking for and I worry about women like this because those men are probably more likely to lie and be deceitful and it's just.
  • [21:30] Mike: Um, okay.
  • [21:37] Mike: Yeah.
  • [21:41] Keith: I mentioned this in the last episode or the episode before like this situation where you have sort of desperate entitled men and desperate. You know, needing money or or sort of confused women is not a good marketplace that's problematic.
  • [21:53] Mike: Um, ah, interesting.
  • [22:00] Keith: Ah, what did the comments on this thread say.
  • [22:05] Mike: Ah, that's a good question I mean I can I can pull it up here quickly. But but I mean she had posted Apparently one other time there were a couple of people actually nit picked her posting because her primary fixture is um of a sideways right? and so you could.
  • [22:21] Keith: Yep, she needs to rotate it.
  • [22:22] Mike: Yeah I mean that's a little bit weird. Um, and so they told her to pick the one one of 1 of the other ones the more more athletic looking 1 perhaps to replace that. Um, yeah I mean they're just saying good improvement.
  • [22:33] Keith: Yeah.
  • [22:41] Mike: They're they're talking about like the text in there. Ah.
  • [22:41] Keith: But I mean consider consider. Okay, here's why she should rotate this photo right? So it's it's a it's a horizontal photo what this person needs to do anything she says in her profile and. Anything she does with the pictures basically doesn't matter 95 out of 100 men on seeking dot com would be interested in meeting this woman and so what she needs to do is give off an air of knowing what she's doing and that she can't be taken advantage of and so. The problem with like this photo that is horizontal and it's her primary photo is that it just like immediately demonstrates incompetence and so that that's why she she she should do whatever she can to not seem like a fish and so.
  • [23:24] Mike: Got it.
  • [23:34] Mike: Okay I found her original profile review. Do you want to see that apparently so she was she was it was suggested to her to become more you know to to amp up her attractiveness.
  • [23:35] Keith: Yeah, that would be my primary advice for her.
  • [23:42] Keith: Ah.
  • [23:49] Keith: Okay, okay.
  • [23:51] Mike: I Just say you a link to the original review that she she had done Um, which presumably is substantially less attractive. Um, it's still pretty compelling right.
  • [24:01] Keith: Yeah, it's good that she got rid of all these photos with her friends. Yeah, it's still compelling but it's good that she got rid of all these photos with her friends.
  • [24:10] Mike: She also ah does have some stories. So so I mean it's interesting to me that in some ways these people are giving advice. That's the opposite of yours basically telling her to amp up the attractiveness. Um, maybe not the opposite but a little bit different. Um, yeah.
  • [24:18] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [24:25] Keith: I don't think she needs to cast a wider net I think that once's you're already getting 95 out of a hundred people. Why optimize to get 97 like that's not like at some point she's blonde. Some people aren't going to like blondes but I mean other than that like who who would.
  • [24:26] Mike: And like.
  • [24:42] Keith: Turn this down fit physically. Anyway.
  • [24:44] Mike: Um I don't know she said that she and her sugar sugar Daddy just split. So maybe it was because of what you said she's not interesting enough.
  • [24:53] Keith: Who knows I would my advice for her would be to put in her profile something like I've been in several arrangements and I know my worth and then ideally that would screen out that would screen out all the people who are.
  • [25:08] Mike: Ah, let me give you one. Ah.
  • [25:12] Keith: Just going to try to take advantage of her.
  • [25:13] Mike: So here's a comment that she made that might validate some of your viewpoints here. She says I did care for him and genuinely loved his company I'm upset as I'm screwed and probably going to be evicted and don't even have a running car to sleep in everything happened at the worst time.
  • [25:29] Keith: Jesus she's just going to get taken advantage of Mike Somebody's going to yeah, it's really unfortunate now. No thanks.
  • [25:33] Mike: Makes you want to call her. Ah.
  • [25:39] Mike: You but you could be her white knight.
  • [25:45] Mike: No thanks.
  • [25:48] Keith: Yeah I mean and then yeah, there really is some sort of asymmetry in the market right? She's so beautiful that like some dude out here would like gladly pay 10 grand to spend a week with her and.
  • [26:02] Mike: She says she legitimately ran out of gas once on the way to cnx sugar Daddy she's had 4 by the way sugar daddies. She felt horrible but he brought her gas and filled her car up I assume that's literal, not figuratively. Those are the only times she's asked for help. Between 2 of the 4 arrangements. She's had okay, fine. Yeah.
  • [26:20] Keith: All right? This is getting boring. We should move on but I want to say 1 more thing on this the entire point if I were a woman of getting on ah seeking dot com would be to find what's what's what they call a whale so a whale is a man who just provides and provides and provides. And they don't make you feel badly about it. They're overly generous and the woman is never left wanting financially and I just think that someone who looks like this should be able to find a whale fairly easily.
  • [26:46] Mike: Right? right.
  • [26:57] Keith: This notion that she's had 4 sugar daddies like sure. Maybe she's met 4 men that basically treated her like a prostitute and gave her a hundred dollars or $200 she's from it says that she's in Greenville South Carolina Carolina which is not an affluent part of the country like she's found some men that give her a pittance of money to have sex with her.
  • [27:07] Mike: Yeah.
  • [27:17] Keith: But that's not really what people are going for when they're looking on seeking dot com now unfortunately, ah in the early stages. You need to figure out a way. How to how to figure out whether somebody has the potential to become a whale and you probably have to go through. A few arrangements that are more like a ppm a paper meat. Um, but yeah, like if you go out with a guy 3 times and you know you sort of have to nag him to give you the one hundred and twenty five bucks or whatever like just move on like especially if you look like this because. She's going to be able to find someone who unless there's just something really wrong with her personality. She should be able to find someone that can give her 10 grand right? and then that would just absolutely dominate. Ah that the the financial situation here.
  • [28:06] Mike: Yeah I think you're right and I think your advice to her was sound that she should be confident and probably the fundamental problem here is that she doesn't have the time what she needs is like a month or 2 to vet people you know, but she doesn't because she needs money right now and that you know not having any time is brutal.
  • [28:20] Keith: I think I think if I were on seeking dot com using her account I could line up 5 dates with her for her in one night with people who I think were were actually potential.
  • [28:34] Mike: Interesting.
  • [28:37] Keith: Like my experience on on seeking is that if I message someone I almost always get a response back within an hour and I and I'm guessing for someone who looks like this if you can sort by men who have been online in the last you know three days just do that and then you know send. Message all of them and then within like you know 3 texts to them say something like look like I'm looking for this kind of thing and if they say no or I'm not interested or how do I know you're real or whatever just move on like you don't she has infinite ah supply.
  • [29:08] Mike: Um, yeah.
  • [29:13] Keith: So it's just about building a filter that finds the good people as quickly as possible. All right, Do you have anything else. You want to say on this we should move on. Okay, um, let's see here. Okay I wanted to talk about this thing that I've read.
  • [29:16] Mike: No, no, it's gone.
  • [29:32] Keith: Ah, few times but it's about a breeding kink and I want to discuss I don't even know what that would be I mean does that mean you enjoy coming in. Someone's vagina Anyway, I'm going to read this and then we can discuss right? but I mean who does't have King That's like it like oh I have a you know, attractive young Woman king.
  • [29:37] Mike: Ah.
  • [29:42] Mike: Yes, or.
  • [29:51] Keith: Okay, this is 25 year old man I've been seeing this girl and found out she told all her friends I have a breeding kink so I've been seeing this girl. Let's call her Rebecca for a couple months now. Fairly casual enough for me to feel comfortable exploring this kink mainly through role play because as much as I like it I don't want kids lmao this ending of sentences with lla mayo and L Lo L is
  • [30:09] Mike: So yep.
  • [30:11] Keith: Exactly what I was talking about like it drives me crazy anyway, I've met Rebecca's friends on several occasions I know she's mentioned some fleeting details of our sex life but nothing but never anything in depth to my knowledge but the other day we were at lunch one of them mentioned out of the blue. So do we have to worry about you getting Rebecca pregnant. Was a bit taken aback and sort of wondered if she was making a bad joke about using protection then a different friend followed it by saying she reckons. We must fuck like animals. Needless to say I was shocked when it became clear. They were all referring to my kink I don't know if Rebecca told me told one who then told the rest or if she told them all, but that was 6 people who knew not to mention some of. Friends boyfriends who heard that I just felt like I got exposed I don't like other people knowing what I enjoy in the bedroom if they're not the ones I'm enjoying it with when I asked Rebecca why she told them she just said it seemed like something they'd enjoy with a very dismissive attitude. Maybe I came across as a bit laid back blah blah blah blah blah all right I don't care about this guy's being feelings being hurt what is a breeding kink.
  • [31:05] Mike: Okay, well I think it's a little more than just like being interested in nutting in the old vagina. Ah I mean for starters you know, well well yeah sure I mean I mean.
  • [31:11] Keith: Okay, he talks about role play.
  • [31:21] Mike: It's going to.. It's going to be my my limited understanding of this I don't have this kink I think I might have the opposite of this kink I I think most men would prefer not to breed most of the time. Ah, but yeah I think it's like they pretend during their PiV sex session. Like they're trying to get her pregnant so she would say things and do things that suggest. That's what's going on right? like put a baby in this belly. There are things she could say ah right.
  • [31:44] Keith: Like what.
  • [31:50] Keith: I see I see. Okay so there's some role playing like oh I'm gonna and pregnantgnate you This is not good dirty duck. But yeah.
  • [31:59] Mike: It has to be role play because I mean right, There's no like obvious external physical sign. The woman would have that she's fertile other than the normal and so yeah, it would have to be like vocalized sort of you know.
  • [32:11] Keith: There are apps these days that can tell you when they're in their fertile window right? So like is some sort of risk aspect part of the kink right? So let's say she had an app would you.
  • [32:19] Mike: That's I'm sure that's not part of the kink because that's not yeah, no.
  • [32:30] Keith: Be more interested in having sex condomless when you know she's ovulating. Okay.
  • [32:33] Mike: Know it's It's going to be like it's going to be like spoken things that are said during like dirty talk right? So um, you know I'm not I'm not on the pill or like you know, um you know, impregnate me or whatever you know.
  • [32:42] Keith: Um, I Just don't think that that's yeah, but that yeah I mean the notion of impregnating somebody is pretty instinctual right? like.
  • [32:50] Mike: But a baby in there I think that like yeah, go ahead.
  • [33:00] Keith: Sometimes when I'm having sex with someone. It is fun to imagine like my load inseminating them. Yeah I mean I think that's I think that's just.
  • [33:05] Mike: It is how often like what percentage of the time. Do you think that makes it more heightens. The experience I'm asking because for me, it's 0
  • [33:16] Keith: Oh interesting.
  • [33:20] Mike: Yeah, that's not like I like yeah.
  • [33:23] Keith: So. The only reason I think there's interesting. Yeah I think that my body is basically designed to want to impregnate and ah sort of thinking through. But yeah I'm done going through this in my. Mind myself but thinking through the process of actually impregnating. Someone can be a bit hot. So Maybe I have a breeding Kink. It's not that I would ever do anything to like.
  • [33:49] Mike: Maybe I think.
  • [33:57] Keith: Yeah, like I don't want to actually impregnate someone. It's just that during the moment of building to orgasm thinking about impregnating someone can be yeah, can be intriguing.
  • [34:04] Mike: Um, really do you use that imagery while masturbating.
  • [34:13] Keith: It's It's hard for me to even imagine what that imagery is.
  • [34:16] Mike: Just like a bloated hand pregnant with a hand baby now.
  • [34:21] Keith: Yeah I mean I don't I don't normally like look at my hand and my dick while I'm orgassiming although I have normally I'm looking at whatever content I'm looking at. But yeah I think I occasionally fantasize about impregnating someone? yeah.
  • [34:31] Mike: Good. Yes.
  • [34:39] Mike: Yeah, yeah I mean this is It's oh I think that like when you actually have a kid The Allure gets smaller like it's like ah you know yeah I hear you.
  • [34:41] Keith: I'm so I'm surprised you don't actually.
  • [34:49] Keith: Um, well I don't want to actually impregnate the person. It's a little more nuanced.
  • [34:54] Mike: No a fair point and I don't think I ever I don't think I ever had this as a as like a thing I would fetishize I think it's really really common for women to have this in their head when they're having sex.
  • [35:04] Keith: Yeah I think their bodies want to get pregnant.
  • [35:08] Mike: Right? I we you and I discussed this once a long time ago about women's breasts and I said to you that I thought you I think you disagreed with me I said that I thought when most women think about their breasts. The first thing that comes to mind is feeding babies with them and you disagreed.
  • [35:25] Keith: M.
  • [35:27] Mike: You might be right because I think you were thinking no the first thing that comes to their mind is like it's an element of their attractiveness which is a reasonable supposition as well. I do it. It bothered me oh good.
  • [35:31] Keith: Yeah I don't remember that conversation I think at in this moment I'm leaning toward your argument but that might be because I've learned since I'm not sure or maybe I didn't even say it in the first place. But yeah I'm not I'm not sure.
  • [35:45] Mike: Yeah women I think women are for various reasons more connected to their fecundity than men are and so yeah, like I think it's yeah.
  • [35:56] Keith: Sure. But yeah I think I agree with that I think women think about getting impregnated more than men think about impregnating but ah, they're both probably coming from the same.
  • [36:04] Mike: Um, yeah.
  • [36:10] Keith: You know, deep down instinctual place.
  • [36:13] Mike: That's true I mean I think that generally the idea of like kind of deflowering or defiling or whatever kind of doing this thing to a woman is basically comes from the same place as wanting to impregnate them I actually would think the the breeding kink though like when I've read people who have this kink. It's usually women.
  • [36:22] Keith: Yes, yeah.
  • [36:31] Mike: Right? And like they'll yeah and that makes sense to me because it's yeah the thing I mean ultimately it's something that's happening to them right? So then for the guy I mean it's yeah I guess but you know seems less ah less direct.
  • [36:39] Keith: Yeah. Okay, yeah let's move on all right? This person says refuse to finger touch me down there hey all I need an honest opinion on this this guy I had met for a second time in two days just which I presume means fucked for the second time in two days just refused to touch me or finger me down there because he didn't like hair. He was a clean shaven duck I didn't know he liked it that way but it hurt like hell that I packed my stuff and left without finishing what we started. He was nice otherwise though tell me did I over react. Um.
  • [37:21] Keith: I don't know what this means meeting for the second time or like what happened on the first time.
  • [37:27] Mike: Um, but the basic question here is ah like should like should a woman be upset if the guy shames her for having pubic hair.
  • [37:37] Keith: I'm not sure if he's shamed her. He just refused to touch her or finger her down there now I don't know if he was willing to put his penis in there. But yeah, generally let's say you're a man and for you the woman being shaved Bald is a strict requirement when.
  • [37:50] Mike: Um I don't think that yeah go ahead. Yeah I don't I don't think that's exactly how this works I think the way this works is that it's become um I mean this is like the the thing where women now are pushing back regarding armbit hair and that ah.
  • [37:52] Keith: Should he reveal that.
  • [38:08] Mike: Is a little bit shocking for men because I think in my entire life that has not been a thing right? I mean that you don't actually see women with armpit hair and ah, it's the same thing if you've gone your entire life without ever seeing a woman with pubic hair and pretty much in porn. That's the case as well I don't.
  • [38:23] Keith: Oh I See you think this guy was confused.
  • [38:28] Mike: I mean I think they know it's theoretically possible but I know that Armpit hair is theoretically possible as well. But I still am surprised to see it right? It doesn't matter because my brain has some sort of like immediate emotional subconscious reaction to it and yeah I mean I don't think you'd be confused I think you'd just be like oh. Like what's you know the you're on unhygienic, you've not done your hygiene rituals.
  • [38:47] Keith: I see yeah I dated somebody briefly who had armpit hair I didn't love it. Mike.
  • [38:58] Mike: What was the Ah, what was the the the the worst part just just the image.
  • [39:04] Keith: Um, I just didn't feel. It felt like I don't know unfeminine or something.
  • [39:08] Mike: I saw a a what was it was it a porn or was it either some sexual content I interacted with in the last like two weeks that had a bunch of things about people licking women's armpits is this something that that ah that.
  • [39:19] Keith: Are.
  • [39:25] Mike: Ah should be aware of her.
  • [39:26] Keith: Well, there are various degrees of armpit fetish. There's at least three Armpit fetish subreddits so I've been told and ah yeah I have seen him.
  • [39:29] Mike: Okay, are there. How do you I mean I see me've gone to them. What are the 3 or what are there 3 okay.
  • [39:44] Keith: I'm not sure I think I think one of them might even be armpit licking I I think I think Armpit licking is something like ass eating. It's just it's not an actual sexual act. It's just submissive.
  • [39:56] Mike: Is one of them fucking the armpit is that one of the subradds I'm just don't know if that's a thing. Okay, okay, but for you this young lady. The issue was just the image was not great. You didn't.
  • [40:01] Keith: But no I don't I don't I I don't know what the the spectrum of the R Pit Fetish subreddits are.
  • [40:13] Mike: She didn't want you to sort of like comb or caress the hair or anything.
  • [40:15] Keith: No, no, it was just how she decided to present.
  • [40:19] Mike: I see which would you pick if you had to pick one area of hair pubic or Armpit why is that I mean you're expected to.
  • [40:30] Keith: Pubic. I don't know and now that you yeah yeah I know but I feel like I am visually experiencing the armpit more than I am the vagina.
  • [40:38] Mike: Put your face in 1 of them or you like to or whatever now. So you're you're changing your mind.
  • [40:50] Mike: Because ever wearing like a sundres or something. Okay, okay, ah so for you the I mean there are multiple levels here too right? I mean I we're assuming like the I met.
  • [40:51] Keith: Yeah.
  • [41:04] Mike: Like the pubic hair would be much less of a problem if it were well trimmed for example than completely allowed to grow I feel like completely allowed to grow. Maybe I would pick armpit above that ah meaning I would try to I would say go ahead and have the armpit hair but don't have the completely unkempt pubic hair. But then if it was.
  • [41:05] Keith: Right? right? right? right.
  • [41:13] Keith: Yeah.
  • [41:22] Mike: Trimmed reasonably. It's like oh now maybe I'll go the other way.
  • [41:24] Keith: Yeah, yeah, I've often thought about like if I went away with a partner and we were camping for months what would happen to her pubes.
  • [41:37] Mike: What What do you think would happen I don't I watched it so long ago that I don't remember it's a good question I mean probably they have razors.
  • [41:40] Keith: Like what happens on the show survivor. Do they all get Harry I've never watched as a season of survivor. Ok yet the producers want the women to have razors I think.
  • [41:56] Mike: So yeah, because there's ah, an aesthetic element that would perhaps stun the audience or bum them out.
  • [42:00] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah, or they have attractive contestants and that's part of the lure of that helps ratings.
  • [42:10] Mike: Sure sure. Ah, yeah, no I So you've never gone camping long enough with a female partner where this happened.
  • [42:16] Keith: No, no, no I mean I've I've seen stubble of course but never ah, a full armpit beard. Yes, yeah, yeah.
  • [42:25] Mike: Except for this one woman that had it as a point of Pride. Interesting. Okay yeah I mean anyway I think I think for this person's question that they yeah mean Society is basically taken it to the point where largely there's an expectation here and he's just. Yeah, yeah, you know, intellectually that it's possible. But he's surprised I mean you would be surprised right? If you had a new conquest in the bedroom and she had full pubic hair.
  • [42:53] Keith: Yeah I think that most women I thought I would go so far as to say that if you are in a first sexual encounter with someone and it was vaguely planned so it was like a third date or something and she had a Bush. She's probably making some sort of political statement.
  • [43:11] Mike: Okay.
  • [43:13] Keith: Like she like most women sort of know what the generally accepted grooming practices are now and so yeah, if it's not lead neatly trimmed or completely shaven. It's some sort of political statement.
  • [43:28] Mike: On tiktok ah women. There's a kind of meme or a thing that women say on Tiktok that if you go to have your first encounter with a woman and or really any encounter but say the first encounter and her bra and her panties match that means that she.
  • [43:39] Keith: Ah.
  • [43:43] Mike: She decided you were going to have an encounter is that is that been your experience as well. Yeah.
  • [43:46] Keith: I've I've heard this trope before I mean yeah, that's probably true I think if I were a woman and I were aware of that trope I would intentionally unmatch my stuff.
  • [44:00] Mike: Why to oh to let the guy. Oh interesting I thought I thought I thought maybe would be so the guy could feel like he'd conquered. You is the the woman can't be.
  • [44:03] Keith: Because I wouldn't want them. Yeah I don't want them to think that I was being presumptuous.
  • [44:11] Keith: No I would yeah I mean boy this getting like third or fourth level here like I can't imagine ever wanting a man to feel like that.
  • [44:21] Mike: Well fair point can can a woman be presumptuous in that way I mean that's not yeah, right? like she knows it's It's like this thing. Um I've seen ah women interviewed or asked. It's not really an interview but asked this question of like oh you know do you have a male.
  • [44:23] Keith: Probably not.
  • [44:38] Mike: Good male friend. Yes, and then would if you if you really want to do would you have sex with you and it's almost always yes and then so that yeah frequently that question will be asked in the context of a woman trying to argue that there is not a strong asymmetry between men and women in this regard and it's pointed out that like 1 fact, there is like the women are always gatekeeping.
  • [44:41] Keith: Right? right.
  • [44:56] Keith: Yeah, to the extent they would say no to that almost all the nose to that question would be women who are lying for various reasons or kidding themselves. They're like oh he would never say oh ok.
  • [44:58] Mike: Against this guy in the friend zone.
  • [45:08] Mike: Right? right? Let me ask you this let me ask you? This is another here's another Tiktok. Ah a thing. So ah, ah ah this this gentleman on Tiktok claimed that for men men have 1 list in their mind of women. They know. Meaning and it's a rank ordered list like who would you have sex with ah and every woman is on that list. They might just be really far down it. But there's just one list and the argument is that women have 2 lists. They have a list of men they would have sex with and a list of men. They wouldn't and so when you're in the friend zone as a man, you're just on that second list.
  • [45:28] Keith: Yeah.
  • [45:34] Keith: Yep. Yeah.
  • [45:45] Mike: And ah and the women basically decide which list the guy goes on within 5 minutes of meeting them. What do you think about that? yeah.
  • [45:51] Keith: Yes, I've heard this trope as well. Yeah I mean it's brutal to get permanently friend zoned so quickly. But I think that probably.
  • [45:59] Mike: You think that's right, Do you think essentially as actuallyly men just I not sure that's totally true because I feel like I have people I've put on a list. Okay.
  • [46:05] Keith: Ah I think men I think men can make themselves more attractive to someone but to flip the bit from being sexually unattractive to attractive is pretty tricky.
  • [46:16] Mike: The the part I would push back against is I think I do have a friend zone list for women.
  • [46:22] Keith: There are women who you may otherwise find sexually attractive but wouldn't sleep with them for various reasons. What do you mean by a friend's own list.
  • [46:27] Mike: No well. The the argument is basically advanced that men have just one list So all women all women that you know or you've met are on this same list and so you would ultimately consider having sex with all of them and I don't think that's right I think there are women where.
  • [46:40] Keith: Are.
  • [46:46] Mike: They're on some different list for me and I would not they're they're not sufficiently attractive or compelling or something or yeah, they're they're various other reasons why I would not I would never consider having sex with them. So essentially they are in the friend zone bit and I've had women essentially throw themselves at me who are on that list and just basically been like yeah I'm not attract you know, not compelling.
  • [47:02] Keith: Yeah I think you're just saying there's some line beneath which you're not interested in anybody.
  • [47:08] Mike: Interesting. So you think they're still on the same list but okay, all right? Well maybe a but a woman have but a a woman could say this the same thing. Okay, but yeah.
  • [47:14] Keith: There's just some line beneath which you just like yeah. Now I think with women I think with women it's orthogonal to how attractive the man is it's often orthogonal to how attractive the man is.
  • [47:28] Mike: Say more about that. It's something about their personality of their job or how they approach or something interesting. So there could be a guy that's extremely okay, right? So this is this is the crux. There could be a guy who's extremely attractive.
  • [47:33] Keith: Yeah, maybe they present as beta.
  • [47:45] Mike: Very friendly and so forth, but just for some reason she puts them on the friend list and it's just not going to happen whereas and this is true if you picked it if you took a woman and she was if you took 2 women and they were equivalently attractive and one I had on the yeah, they would definitely be on this on the same list. That's true I would never yeah.
  • [47:50] Keith: Um, yep.
  • [48:02] Mike: If you get to a certain level of attractiveness I would never say no, you're you're on the friend list that must be the point of this. Okay fair point.
  • [48:06] Keith: Right? Yeah, yeah, all right I'm glad we collectively bargained that one. Ah I wanted to talk about this last week we didn't get to it this person says my boyfriend always looks at his phone when I'm going down on him. The other day I saw naked anime girls on his phone just after doing it. He also has never ejaculated even if I've tried really hard. How should I feel about this does it mean he doesn't like me that much.
  • [48:35] Mike: He's probably using the phone to try to nut from the blow right.
  • [48:39] Keith: Could be I mean it's pretty disrespectful to be ah unspokenly and have and sort of poorly secretively looking at porn on your phone.
  • [48:55] Mike: Um, it's hard for me to believe that the guy doing that the reason I would are 1 reason there's a few reasons but 1 of the reasons I wouldn't do this is that I would assume that my female partner would have enough self-esteem to refuse to to end that session there and then and maybe it would jeopardize future sessions.
  • [48:57] Keith: While.
  • [49:13] Keith: It's outrageous to pull out your phone not tell them and be looking at porn while they're going down on you. Ah, now if you discuss it beforehand Maybe she would say yes and I still think it's sort of a mildly obnoxious thing to ask them. But.
  • [49:14] Mike: Right.
  • [49:17] Mike: Right? yeah.
  • [49:28] Mike: Right.
  • [49:30] Keith: There could be reasons but doing it without announcing is sort of silly now look they could be young, maybe his previous 2 partners sort of allowed this and he thinks this is normal or something but I ah more.
  • [49:45] Mike: So hang on. So I I think we've talked about in the past a friend a mutual friend of ours who ah wore a Vr headset ah while getting oral from his very horny friend. Um, ah girlfriend.
  • [49:55] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [50:02] Mike: And that worked well for them. Um or was it was fine but it was of course prediscused I have a question would you if you were going down on a girlfriend Kariff she wanted to do that. So let's say she said look I want to I want to use the headset and have ah some sort of vr experience while you give me oral.
  • [50:21] Keith: Yeah, ah, let's see I think my ego would be slightly bruised I would feel like I am not able to deliver her enough stimulation to get her to where she wants to go but I wouldn't be I mean if.
  • [50:21] Mike: Would that bother you.
  • [50:26] Mike: Okay.
  • [50:39] Keith: Yeah, it's It's a little bit like when a partner asks to get out a vibrator. It's like well yeah, all right sure like there's there's there's some amount of ego bruising and it can be mild or severe depending on what exactly is going on but mostly.
  • [50:42] Mike: Oh interesting. Okay.
  • [50:58] Keith: I'm interested in my partner having you know sexual pleasure and so.
  • [51:02] Mike: Yeah, so I think I would be in both of those cases I I would view it as a positive. Ah both the vibrator and the Vr headset and the reason why is because ah, anything that she can do to indicate that She's interested in amping up her experience like is good I'd say yeah I'd say like.
  • [51:16] Keith: Yeah, yeah, that's a good take actually.
  • [51:20] Mike: My biggest concern is that she's just ah, she's just neutral. She's like I Luke Warren but if she's like I want to try something crazy I'm like great. Yeah.
  • [51:24] Keith: Right? Yeah, yeah, that's a good tig I think I agree actually yeah, the ego bruises. Not I mean it's tricky. It basically depends.
  • [51:31] Mike: Um, well I think you would feel.
  • [51:41] Keith: On the partner. Yeah, and then they're like general enthusiasm like if you feel like they're there perfunctorily and they're really not into it and it's like a last ditch. They're like well do you mind if I look at some porn that's that's 1 thing but if it's like you know you've had like ah a good sex session and like maybe I king first and.
  • [51:43] Mike: Right.
  • [52:01] Keith: You know she's like oh do you mind if I look at some porn then like fine. Yeah, whatever. That's that's actually that's a positive.
  • [52:05] Mike: And is so reminds me of the I think it's the opening scene of the famous porn deep throat have you seen that porn. It's from the seventy s and I remember seeing this long long ago. But I remember it sticks in my head.
  • [52:12] Keith: I Don't know no guess.
  • [52:23] Mike: The first one. It's either the first or 1 of the first scenes is a woman sort of just lounging on her counter of her bat or her but ah kitchen talking to somebody I think she's talking to somebody maybe on the phone I can't remember exactly but there's a guy just giving her oral while she's doing that and I remember really liking that scene because of that because it indicated.
  • [52:32] Keith: Um.
  • [52:35] Keith: M.
  • [52:43] Mike: Ah, sort of casual pleasure that a woman could have that like I associate it only with men sort of heretofore and so I like that I was like oh that's that's yeah, like yes I think the guys don't mind as much this sort of step for a woman would not want a guy. Ah.
  • [52:45] Keith: Yeah, that's a good directing by the by the director there.
  • [53:02] Mike: Watching Tv or playing video games even though there are porns of that because yeah, it's sort of the opposite dynamic right? I mean the guy is clearly interested in sex and it's like well the fact that he's lost interest here suggests something very negative about her or the relationship. So yeah, it's i.
  • [53:13] Keith: Right.
  • [53:20] Mike: This guy's question. This woman's question rather is almost hard to believe it's a real thing going on although kids these days with their phones I don't know.
  • [53:30] Keith: yeah yeah I mean I don't know the specifics at all of the situation I mean the person just wrote like 3 sentences poorly. Um, but yeah.
  • [53:38] Mike: Um, right? Oh I bet this is a thing that goes on I mean I didn't mention harkening back to the beginning of the episode with the Tween teenage kids I mean these kids sit around a table and talk to each other in memes.
  • [53:54] Mike: That you know they'll just start sentences well like that feeling when you know like that meme or I actually couldn't do it Justice I'd have to I'd have to write down the things they say but ah it could be that the phones are so integrally tied into their experience that pulling out their phone while getting a blow is like just like oh why is this a problem.
  • [53:54] Keith: Ah.
  • [53:56] Keith: Yeah, yes.
  • [54:14] Mike: Is just what I do I Always pull my phone out.
  • [54:16] Keith: I mean I could see the culture moving in that direction I guess I Just don't think we're there yet where you could just do it unannounced it. Everyone's like okay that's normal.
  • [54:29] Mike: Yeah I don't know I genuinely don't know because it's ah I can understand the things that that age group is saying because of my knowledge my somewhat extensive knowledge of some of this crap. But ah, it's definitely ah modes of communication that are pretty unfamiliar to me. And so I'm not sure I could make any informed judgments about what an 18 year old would consider appropriate or inappropriate with your phone watching sex. Yeah, you've probably had sex with a girl while she would say talking to ah her mom or something on the phone right.
  • [54:55] Keith: Yeah.
  • [55:04] Mike: Even I did that like in college.
  • [55:05] Keith: Um I can't remember but I guess it's possible I mean I've definitely been in a situation where we're having sex and then a phone call Interrupts it I'm sure. Ah.
  • [55:10] Mike: Um, yeah, like a little game.
  • [55:17] Mike: So sure.
  • [55:22] Keith: If we've continued while they were on the phone right? Yeah, it's the old trope. Yeah, um, let's do 1 more topic. Ah this person asks. How do you guys? navigate dating app hookups.
  • [55:25] Mike: Yeah, well there can be something hot there right? because she's trying to you know, talk to whoever while Yes, exactly.
  • [55:41] Keith: New to the sex thing at this point and I want to try new people I've only met someone from an app once and it went poorly because I felt super uncomfortable and cut the date short now I'm trying to do it again. But I Honestly don't know how or what to talk about or where to go before hooking up how to build a relationship that is non-romantic but trustworthy. Everything So can anyone please give me a rundown. So first off I don't think this is really a thing. This this person seems to have the idea that you say on tinder that you're just looking to hook up and then you match with someone and then you need to like somehow collectively bargain how you're going to actually get to the hooking up part I don't think most women are looking for this.
  • [56:17] Mike: What's the part that you find difficult to believe the fact of the woman just hooking up wanting to the I don't know I remember um when I was in ah living in France talking to a guy.
  • [56:23] Keith: Um, yeah I suppose so.
  • [56:31] Mike: And I went on some long tear about this basically telling him this is what wasn't a thing and he he was probably I like 25 pretty attractive. He was ah he was tutoring me in french and during the for this particular tutoring session when I came into his house. He had to hide.
  • [56:33] Keith: Yeah.
  • [56:41] Keith: Um, yep.
  • [56:50] Mike: He didn't have to but he hid some torn condom wrappers so it was clear. He had banged like that last night and I was like yeah you know I don't think it was plural. Yeah, and I don't I was sort of I was so but I was going into because I have a similar feeling about this that you do as as our listeners know like I'm pretty crumudgeonly and skeptical.
  • [56:54] Keith: Ah, yeah, yeah, plural wrappers. Nice.
  • [57:09] Mike: And so I said oh yeah I don't think you know the hookup culture blah blah Blah Blah blah and he's like yeah, you're off and he just like laid into me about all the chicks and he just bangs all the time was like oh okay.
  • [57:15] Keith: Um, I feel like.
  • [57:18] Keith: I think it's easy to have like 6 or 7 women in your back pocket that you can call and you know one of them 1 of them will will answer the bell I don't think that it's reliable that on a Friday evening you could go on tinder at nine p m and.
  • [57:30] Mike: Um, yeah.
  • [57:37] Keith: Have a reasonable expectation of hooking up that night I think it it can happen but it's.
  • [57:38] Mike: Oh I think that's I don't yeah you wouldn't be saying that it's just yeah, the main point the main thrust of this guy's argument. His name was Kevin of Kevin's argument was and Kevin I should just say this. He worked as a projectionist at an art of an art like film house. You know like he would he would push the button to turn on the project. It's right, it's fucking preposterous. It actually really kind of irritated me because it's like I mean he was well educatated I think ah he he's a film writer but in France it's a little different because hollywood doesn't work the same there. A lot of the films are are paid for by the government.
  • [57:59] Keith: Ah, that's worse than the guy who was working on a Carnival ride operator.
  • [58:15] Keith: Yeah.
  • [58:18] Mike: But somehow this dude was just fucking left and right with with this terrible cv um, but his claim was that and this is the important crux of it is that Ah, he many of the women he would interact with were just looking for a hookup.
  • [58:35] Keith: Yeah I mean that that he has a bad cv actually sort of supports his argument that the women are just looking to hook up right? They're not vetting him for any of that other stuff they're just you know if he's handsome. Maybe it's even better right? It's like the.
  • [58:37] Mike: They were not looking for a relationship.
  • [58:53] Mike: How interesting so you just think he's one of those ten or twenty percent of guys that incels complain about I don't know if he was that it's really hard for me to say lord.
  • [58:53] Keith: But firemen thing.
  • [59:00] Keith: I Don't know I would love I would love to interview him actually just because I don't I don't know you could translate from french.
  • [59:11] Mike: Um, I'm sure he speaks english ah yeah, Kevin ah he ah I don't know I don't know I could probably find a picture of him I don't know how attractive he was because because it's be hard for me to judge I'm going to guess very um.
  • [59:26] Keith: Yeah, ah yeah I Yeah I wonder how much to the extent that I think this is real I Wonder how much physical attractiveness and what you say matter? No no, no, no no I I'm I'm sure you are.
  • [59:31] Mike: Which part do you eat. You think I might be lying. You think he might be lying. Yeah.
  • [59:43] Keith: Accurately reporting what he said ah and to the extent that what he said is true I'm curious about whether the large portion of his success is due to the way he looks or the way he speaks or writes.
  • [59:58] Mike: It's probably the. It's probably the former I mean if I'm being honest about it. He's probably just an attractive guy and.
  • [01:00:00] Keith: It could be it could be I could imagine apps are sort of an unusual case because there's just photos everywhere. But if you're at a bar I could imagine the way you speak being a little bit more important, especially if you're sort of like. You know, trawling for gold at midnight or whatever.
  • [01:00:20] Mike: Yeah, we're running out of time but I want to ask something so I was I was down in a college town like five days ago with somebody and was sort of salivating over the young ladies there. Ah and I asked this guy or I said something like.
  • [01:00:28] Keith: Yeah.
  • [01:00:35] Mike: Oh well I said something kind of negative like oh well, you know I could never have attained any of these this this level of attractiveness and he said oh you know all that matters is you're swagger and then recounted some story about like a buddy of his that like spent all his time trying to hook up and that he was very successful I mean is that.
  • [01:00:50] Keith: Yeah.
  • [01:00:53] Mike: That sound right? You probably can guess who I'm talking about even first I was hanging out with but is that does that but does that make any sense to you. It is yeah.
  • [01:00:57] Keith: Oh Yeah I can't yeah ok well it sounds like something that you would say um, it does matter I think I think it it's situational I think there are times when the way you look is more important. And there are times when the way you speak is more important and in the times when the way you speak is more important the way you look actually is probably surprisingly unimportant. Ah, but I think there are situations where where looks really matter and I don't think there are any situations where looks don't matter at all like you have to clear a certain bar.
  • [01:01:22] Mike: Um, okay.
  • [01:01:32] Mike: Now. Okay, bringing it back to this. Ah, this woman in South Carolina who's really attractive but just spends all your time on that is which do you think would be more important for her if if you were to approach her. Let's say in a non sugar context. Just.
  • [01:01:33] Keith: And yeah, that's like a.
  • [01:01:42] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [01:01:48] Mike: Ah, normal like in a bar is it. Swagger is it your looks she's she's let's assume you're what you're saying about her is true that she's not very smart. She she probably isn't she's got she doesn't have 2 ah pots to piss in or whatever.
  • [01:01:50] Keith: Yeah I mean I mean it's right right? right? right? Ah, it's a good. It's a good sign that she's asking for help on the on the subreddit at least right? but.
  • [01:02:04] Mike: Um, that's interesting.
  • [01:02:07] Keith: That's a level of of awareness that already gets her into Ninetieth percentile but in any case, let's let's continue to stereotype her because it's more interesting. Ah yeah I mean if she was at a bar I mean I just feel like she's probably heard it all. Um, but.
  • [01:02:12] Mike: Um, fair point. Um.
  • [01:02:20] Mike: Yeah.
  • [01:02:25] Keith: Yeah I don't know I mean I you know I'm not sure what the right thing to pique her interest would be.
  • [01:02:32] Mike: Yeah, well we can uppost her details or her profile review on the show notes. So maybe people can ah reach out to her I mean I Honestly think she's attractive enough that I think there may be a listener that would like pay her to fly somewhere or something could help her out.
  • [01:02:48] Keith: I'm sure she's definitely at that level you you do hear about this you hear about this where people fly sugar babies out. There's all kinds of problems with that like you're trusting this dude to like fly you out. Ah and then like what if things go south like how are you going to get home.
  • [01:02:50] Mike: She is.
  • [01:02:56] Mike: Um, yeah.
  • [01:03:02] Mike: Um, yeah, you'd want a round trip ticket that's like refundable or something that's true.
  • [01:03:03] Keith: Especially if you're in a financial situation like hers I would just if I if I were her and I was considering flying out to someone I would be like listen. Um I understand if this is too much to ask, but this is an enormous amount of risk for me. Um I I need you to? um.
  • [01:03:21] Mike: Um, yeah.
  • [01:03:22] Keith: Give me x amount of money just so that I can feel safe and if that's too much or if you don't trust me I totally understand. But um I'm it's just too risky for me otherwise and and then if the if the person says no then she could just move on to like the next of the million people in line.
  • [01:03:32] Mike: Now I Just cannot believe her right? It's amazing and someone not attractive just trying to get her gas tank filled up by someone anyway.
  • [01:03:42] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's hard to square all right? That's enough for episode 85 of your mileage may vary find us on Twitter at ymmvpod or send us an email at ymmvpod@gmail.com we'll answer your questions on the show unless you indicate you'd like them to be kept private. We pay $10 for any feedback received. So do your worst. Thanks for listening and we'll catch you next week on your mileage may vary.