Your Mileage May Vary: Youth, Vanity and Sugar Baby Allowances, Masturbation Handedness, Surprise Sex Workers, Washing Penises

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

[00:00] Keith and Mike: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is controversial but mostly in good faith and Keith my co-host sitting across the table from me is Mike hi Mike Hello Keith so we have a little bit of a race against the clock here. There's an air show. And think it's going to start in just about an hour so hopefully it doesn't mess up our recording. He's nodding in agreement I have a joke for you. It's one of these jokes that like I think is better if you read it and if you hear it. But I'm I'm going to try you ready? Yeah, okay. What's the difference between a chickpea and a garbanzo bean I don't know nobody pays $100 to let a garbanzo bean on their face I get it I saw I ah but I saw a Tiktok on point. Of course you did. It was a girl who she ran into a guy that she'd had a one night stand with he didn't seem to recognize her where did she run into him. Maybe it's not important I'm not remembering the details but the important thing about it is that she maybe it was a comedian so might have been a fake story but let's assume it's real. Yeah, ah. She was sort of frustrated because she's like I drank a cup of your pee. Why must have been his fetish or something. Yeah, would you want someone to drink a cup of your pee. No also a cup seems like a lot of volume. Oh maybe it's not It's a lot.
[01:30] Keith and Mike: Actually don't know what my ever she probably meant I bet. It's not that much like if you like go to a bar and have like two pints of beer and then you go to pee. Oh you mean to help I thought you meant it's a lot to input I mean drinking a cup of pee would be a drag. Well I was thinking of a cup as eight fluid ounces yeah it's a lot. Yeah, it's material amount. Yeah, but could you produce a copy I'm sure you could in fact, you can because I peed in like ah as I'm sure you have to and like I used an empty yes bottle like my but situations where I've wished the bottle was larger. Yeah, so I think I'd filled up maybe a pint bottle I I think I could yeah yeah, yeah, so um. Are you aware of this cheating scandal in the chess community. Why yes I am okay so there's some you probably know more about this than me. There's some because you're a fairly talented chess player. You not thought. Um, okay, you are okay mediocre intermediate chess talent and well practiced I guess are divergent. It. But all right? Yeah, okay, whatever you're you're ah you're a ninety fifth percentile that's all right ches blu all right? Um there's some guy who's really good but he's not as good as the guy who's the best right? and they played each other and the guy who's the best walked away from the table and he didn't say why but the speculation is he thinks. This other young upand comeer of what's cheating and we're we're going to get to something sex related here dear listener story and ah the way he was cheating is he was somehow having a computer assist him now.
[03:02] Keith and Mike: How would you have a computer assist you if you're sitting across the table from someone and it's on television right? I mean normally to be clear. Ah there I don't want to slander the guy there. Ah, there's no like nobody knows so he you know innocent until brew and Guilty. So The presumption remains that he did not cheat. However, there knows the presumption doesate I think there have been people who have studied his moves and his moves from previous matches and they appear to demonstrate some pattern that seems unlikely for human to execute yeah people what people want those so kind of a some something stronger evidence than that. Be sure they're willing to convict him. Of course when they when people cheat online. There are other mechanisms they use and that's sort of a well-known more well-known area to find cheating So anyway, yeah, there's this issue of how someone would do it and the proposed method would be that there's somebody watching the game as it goes along with a phone that then with their phone. They're able to signal. A message to the person playing sitting in front of the table and then the proposed thought that people had is maybe it would be signal 3 but plug. Yeah, and so importantly, somebody actually some innovative technologist created a but plug shaped. Very small computer they could in fact, do this and vibrate. Oh he demonstrated that this was possible. Yes, vibrate the moves and there was some debate about whether it sends him the moves through northe code or something it was simpler than that it was basically just ah, you know.
[04:34] Keith and Mike: 1 buzz is a pawn one two buszz wrote that kind of thing and then the number you know where you where you have the piece 2 and there was some debate about whether the bud plug shaped device was too big to fit in a butt but I think that most people would be able to fit that in and also it could be miniaturized a lot more There was some question as to whether this is an area where a woman would have a natural advantage. Why she has an extra orificphe. Oh so she could put it somewhere else and then I was sort of wondering whether let's say you did want to cheat at some event like this and let's say do you need more throughput like with having 2 devices. 1 is a great question. But I mean could you? what? what time like first of all, do you think that you could detect in a useful way buzzing through a butt plug and I neither of us is able to opine on a vaginal device. Um, you know. For a while I think cell phones you could change the strength of the vibrating motor. Okay I don't think I can on my I have a pixel 6 pro can you on your iphone. You have a Android phone I do so that means that when you text young women you are a green text not a blue text. Yes, and. That some some have been disappointed. Yeah that's not what they've been further disappointed when I go in my rant about why they're the ones who should be ashamed. But in any case I don't think I can change the vibration power. No okay, but but surely there are motors that could yeah and if they vibrate.
[06:08] Keith and Mike: Weekly enough. It probably cannot be detected well, the question isn't not I'm asking whether a third party I'm not asking whether a third party could detect it I'm asking whether you think you could productively get information out it like do you think if something was up your butt vibrating. You could get information out of it or like in other words does it have to be in contact with the anus. Or yeah, well now it can be just pressed up against the wall. You think you would feel that what is the bottom part of the colon cold again, we've we've been the red. Okay I think it could go up against the wreck you would feel that you think I think so okay I don't really care enough to find out but I do think so yes. I mean in almost all I mean they always make a big deal. A really big deal actually in any sort of sex education forum that you should use an anal plug or a anal dildo that has a flared base so it doesn't get stuck inside. This is the opposite of that right? This is something you want to get stuck inside. I actually think there's a whole lot of this is not something that's been heavily researched sticking something fully up your butt and then seeing how effectively you can measure now I assume you would feel it pretty well for your prostate as a man. Maybe a man has an advantage of a woman because that prostate in there I don't yeah. I think that's actually not an issue the issue is making it undetectable. It needs to vibrate pretty mildly. Okay, so if there's any suspicion like it can't make you shake at all I don't think that would have to make sure it's you have to make sure it's not arousing. You yeah, you know various issues all right, let's move on.
[07:43] Keith and Mike: Um, all right. There were a few things from your episode with Eric but I'm obliged to litigate. The first is a grammatical point. Ah yeah I think Eric's right that you cannot collectively bargain between 2 single parties right. 1 of the parties needs to be at least at least one of the parties needs to be more than one could I make an argument that the joke is in the exaggeration. Yes, that was part of I discussed it with him before the show and I think it would be required that I knew that. Before so you didn't you were just it was a malapropism I don't know I don't think I thought about it I think I thought that negotiate a collective bargain bargaining was a more like legal form of negotiating or something. Okay, you misunderstood the term collected. Yeah I think so okay, but and then I got lucky that it basically works yeah well it works some it works for everybody except for people who are extremely well read or very intj short Myers Brigg Overlap yes quite a bit. Okay, next I also agree with Eric oh that my read on the. Seeking arrangement young lady may have been a little bit unfair. Although and so Eric's argument was her photos were not professional enough to strongly imply that she was Instagram so this is a very attractive.
[09:19] Keith and Mike: Everybody agrees. She's very attractive. Yes, the question is is she like an eight nine or 10 Eric said 9 he said 9 so find 9 or 10 yeah, the photos are in the show notes from the last episode episode 86 yeah, there was some there was some icky moments around discussing this person's age but right to be clear. We stipulated that everything we said. Doesn't apply if she's under age. Yes, if she's under 18 she's absolutely revolting and not in career at all. That's great that goes what that saying? Okay so you didn't see you no longer think that she's an Instagram model you think she's no I still think that she is likely very obsessed with the way that she presents in the world I think she might be. Sort of pre vein like she's gonna get there. She's not quite there yet. Um I agree that she doesn't yet have a professional looking vibe to her myriad selfies. But I think it's coming. Okay. Um, yeah, it's like she hasn't been exposed to like maybe she goes to a small school or she doesn't have friends that are like telling her like oh you need to bend your right leg. When you're having photos taken of you so that's at an angle and turn your hips in this way, there's various things that's just a thing that women there are things that are well known about like how to pose for photos and I think she just hasn't had the coaching yet. Okay I do notice often. The women will pose with one foot sort of in front of the other.
[10:48] Keith and Mike: But I always interpret that as like trying to hide her crotch areas is there's some other Reason. No I Think there's there's all the reason there's some way. No, that is not the reason there is some way that you can angle your body or legs. So as to maximize looking skinny or. Ah, looking a certain way I don't know what the exact reason is but so there is some like generic advice about how to stand for Photos. You don't think women are typically self-consciously hiding their their crotch from me. No Okay I don't think they think about that at all because there's something there to hide it smooth. Well. Yeah, but guys are turned on by the lack of something they must know that I think so but they may not I mean sure. Intellectually if you ask them like are you aware that like men stare at your Crot Sometimes they would say yes but I'm not sure that as part of their minute by minute Existence. They're feeling like. And may be being looked at it so we may have discussed this one before too. But I've noticed ah some percentage of the time I'll be sitting across from a woman. It doesn't really matter the age but let's say she's wearing one of these outfits where ah. She has like out of a jacket or like a half jacket on that could or could not cover her breasts depending on how carefully she pulls it around her front and of course her breasts aren't exposed, but they're much more exposed unless she pulls it around and I've noticed that even if I'm not looking at them.
[12:13] Keith and Mike: In conversation or if I'm sort of looking in her direction women will kind of subconsciously or without they'll they'll they'll sort of pull the the clothing closed across their chest if you notice women doing this. Maybe I know I notice the opposite medical. Yes, of course I mean I think when women are feeling. Vulnerable or ex exposed in a situation where they don't want to be they'll button up a little but I'm not saying buttoning it up I'm thinking they just it's like they and sometimes they'll do repeatedly as if like they're you know, slightly opens a little and then they keep reclosing it. Yeah I've noticed women like if they're in a low cut dress or in a bikini. They'll often like sort of like rearrange themselves. Yeah, try to like make themselves more modest and it's like well why are you like? What is what's the goal here. There's like some perfect amount of modesty I guess that they're trying to some needle they're trying to thread of course guys like it anytime a woman interacts with their own breast. Yeah. Ah, yeah, or crop area. Yeah, the problem is in in the effort to be more bodice. They're drawing attention. Yeah, they never they pull it up typically not down. Yeah chest park. Yeah, okay, the last thing here was Eric says he uses his right hand to masturbate even though he's left hand interestingly he was ah. A little unclear on that point, right? He yeah, you think a guy would be really really yeah dead set clear on yeah, handy used to masturbate but he was a little actually I I so it was a little unclearty you you think it was his right hand. Well okay, it is much better to use your left hand because you can use the mouse with your right hand.
[13:45] Keith and Mike: But a left handed person could which you are could use their left hand on the mouse. Oh maybe he uses a left handed I asked him that and he said no he uses his right hand on the Mouse. So I think I just dropped it because it was getting boring. Yeah, like my I ah I just don't understand why a left handed person would try to train themselves to masturbate right-handed. right I don't yeah I mean I am a right handed person and I've had to had to like well I think we've discussed yeah you are injured or something you broke your wrist. Well no, it's not just that like I actually when I'm masturbating in front of a computer I use my left hand but when I'm actually like having sex with a person I use my right hand. Yeah and there is a meaningful difference in feel. Between the 2 to me. Okay, but which do you prefer I think the left hand is ah I think I think the left hand is more stimulating. Okay like for some reason like it yet I don't know it stimulates me a little bit more and so that's more useful in a masturbation situation whereas in a. Yeah, you weren't necessarily trying to get yourself to orgasm as fast as but not as fast quickly when having yeah I haven't paid attention to I think I always use my left. Okay I use control I'm left handed even in a partner situation. Yeah, but if I wanted to like lower stimulation I could with my left I don't need to like impose. A. You know handicap by using my right? Yeah I don't know it's so I mean its look. This is surely this is 100% because of the fact that when I learned to masturbate I did it right handed and then yes with the mouse you start to do it more and more with your left hand and so I yeah develop to habit which i.
[15:19] Keith and Mike: Think is undiscused but common among men. Yeah, right? handed? Yeah I would guess that many right handed men are at least competent with their left hand in a way that left handed men would not be competent with their right hand which is why I was surprised to hear that Eric prefers his right hand all right next? ah. There was some thread on the sugar lifestyle forum subreddit this week about like average allowances or yeah, this is ah this is a data packed read I haven't looked at it yet I hope you have yeah I distilled yeah the results to something. I will put and our listeners here link to this into the show notes and and people that are interested in this topic generally I don't know the average income wealth etc of our listener base I hope it's high for your own benefit. We should. We should say what this is first. Okay, so. Ah, the sugar lifestyle forum subreddit is a subreddit for people who engage mostly using this website called seeking dot com which is which lines up sugar daddies to sugar babies. Usually this is older men paying younger women. For their time. Usually there is sex involved and it's a little bit different from prostitution and that they'll go out to dinner and that you know some sort of varying degrees of seriousness and relationships develop.
[16:52] Keith and Mike: And this thread was talking about what sort of compet compensation these young women receive is that inaccurate that's right and the the reason why the forum does it this way and is that they wanted to stop if if they they actually ban individual posts from. Discussing compensation because that's all that would happen on the thread or the inform if they did that so they actually block those and then have like a quarterly or some yeah so it's rare to get insight into the actual finances. That's right, the average arrangement. So a couple findings that I think are interesting. Of course, there's you know there's a bunch of other sort of demographic information like the average ages. The ages are kind of obvious the girls are about women are going to be from 18 to 35 I'm going to guess it's more more in the 20 s and the high teens than the 30 of the men maybe 30 to. Sixty five seventy yeah um and interesting another interesting thing the so people are either doing an allowance which is like a monthly amount or pay per meet which is basically what like paying an escort interestingly the amounts that they're paid.
[18:03] Keith and Mike: Letting the motorcycle go past? Yeah amounts they're paid. Ah don't really depend that much on the geography where they are that surprise it is and maybe the people are lying I mean this is like an honor system thing. Although right a lot of data. So I mean there are people from India Mexico Mid Middle East Morocco South Africa but typically lines up around around say 2 to 3001 to say 1 to three thousand really two to $3000 a month or 3 4 $500 a meat which probably winds up being about the same I'm guessing because I think that. These people are probably meeting up between 4 and 6 times a month regardless there's also some arrangement there about whether it's exclusive. Of course I mean exclusive meaning and we were discussing this before the show a little unclear if it's the man who's exclusive or the woman I'm assuming it always means the woman because. That's where the action is right? Sex sex takes place in the vagina you know, ultimately, that's where sex happens so the ah but I maybe so roughly half of them are exclusive which is a little bit surprising. Ah. So I mean there's my basic takeaway on this is like that's just not very much money. Well how much isn't I said it's about 2 or $3000 a month or between 3 to $500 pay per meat.
[19:30] Keith and Mike: Typical amount typical amount and and geographic geographically it's kind of the same no matter where you are 3 to 500 per meet. That's right? Okay, yeah, okay, so those numbers basically if you meet you know 4 times a month you get to to that two grand. So yeah, there's no difference between you. You don't get a bulk discount. Basically yeah I think you get you might a bit because maybe the 500 there are a few by by the way outliers where somebody says they're getting $10000 a month is yeah yeah, getting a thousand dollars paper yeah you want to look at the median here. Yeah yeah, I mean the thing I think is interesting is this compares very favorably with the typical numbers. You would see on an escort website. Where it might be 7 $800 six hundred dollars for pretty attractive women young women and my guess is that women are willing to take a substantial cut here because of the fact that they're they're just having the same guy. You know it's there's consistency and they're not having to basically constantly or they don't know what they're doing. If they're on this forum posting. Ah you know posting that's true. In fact, some on some level I would think these would be on the higher end that was one of the thoughts I had when reading this yeah that the lesson form was would probably or if they were embarrassed. They might not that could be at their numbers to the survey that could be yeah. But yeah, generally like I think um, it just basically goes to say I don't I mean they're probably There's so several hundred responses not maybe maybe a couple hundred responses not that many of course these are only the people on this subredd at them. It's surprising now this that there aren't more people in these kinds of arrangements given.
[21:06] Keith and Mike: I mean we're only talking like say $35000 a year. Um, that's for a working professional man that's not actually that expensive right? and a lot of the ickiness factors with prostitution the transactional nature. The.
[21:26] Keith and Mike: That she slept with ten other Johns this week or more well, it's like I was I was ah reading a thread the other day which was about ah how what exactly happens when you hire.
[21:41] Keith and Mike: An escort or a prostitute and and and and what they were saying is that she comes into your hotel room or wherever you are let's say you're in a hotel. Yeah, she comes as she knocks you open the door she comes in you pay her money of course and then she always excuses herself to go to the bathroom and then she counts the money. Well they're saying it so was and then somebody said why does she go to the bathroom and then. If. There were a few responses counting the money making sure it's all there is one response another is that she's texting or calling someone to say that she got there safely. Okay, but a third response was she was cleaning herself out from the last ah and these are the kinds of things that using a sugar lifestyle type situation would would mitigate you of Yeah yeah, I mean because. It's really is a mutually beneficial situation I mean the woman. Yeah, everybody benefits? Yeah yeah, yeah, she doesn't want to be doing that I think women take more risk in sugar relationships than they should. What are you but well then they stereotypically do I guess I think that. Yeah I just think that when you line up a much older man who ostensibly is wealthy with a much younger woman who you know is decided to become. You know what could be strongly argued as a sex worker. You just. Create an asymmetry and power there that is that can lead to situations that are dangerous and you know it could just be the man just is entitled and is demanding right on the low end and then.
[23:15] Keith and Mike: On The high end you can get you know just the issues that that escorts have which is you know I got to the hotel room or like worse I got to his house right? And then you know I couldn't leave or he stood in front of the door. Whatever need to like finish the thought here. But yeah I think there's some risk. That is mitigated a little bit in an arrangement situation versus outright prostitution. But I don't know I don't know I don't know how to like quantify that risk for for each I would think the biggest risk for the woman is taking her most attractive years and not. Using them to find a life partner and then so why couldn't she do that in parallel I think it would be difficult I think most emotionally or prejudicely or pragmatically I think there aren't that many I think both actual reasonable eligible men that would be her age that would be willing to tolerate that. Say Well what you know you actually reasonable people. It's like what am I got to tell our kids could you make an argument that the most thoughtful man would totally be able to understand it and that it might actually filter out dopes I don't think so okay. I Don't know I I don't know if I would make that argument either. Yeah I Think the cult I could imagine somebody making that argument. Yeah,, there's a reason why the culture is set up the way it is yeah would be difficult. Yeah, it just isn't like conducive to having looked actually like forming a family. Yeah, being like oh well, you know I used to be a sugar baby. Yeah I mean you can make an argument a dad and.
[24:51] Keith and Mike: Indeed I think I have made the argument that it's highly rational for attractive young women to be sugar babies and so yeah, so and like yeah, that's why I think that's right with the caveat that if they're it depends on what your goals are yeah if their goal is to find a guy and settle down in a family then. Might not be the best strategy. Yeah I just think I would be almost conceptually not interested, but this is hard to say I think a lot of women would secretly shame this kind of behavior I'm trying to think if I could get along with a woman who would be like that who would secretly shame it. Yeah, who would like a woman who doesn't approve of sex work or has things it has some sort of I mean everyone acknowledges it. It has a stigma but who actually thinks that it should I'm not sure it's complicated because there's a. Connection between this and just an older man younger woman just dating because it's not actually any different right? I mean yeah I mean if if she starts living at your apartment and you live in some high-rise on the upper east side of Manhattan she's basically living rent free a place quite expensive so on and so forth. So there's a set of things that you know right? Yeah, all right? Let's move on. There are a lot of threads from Reddit that we have been accumulating here I don't know where to start.
[26:25] Keith and Mike: Um, this one's good because it's kind of short this person asks men. What's the best way to subtly hint that we want to sleep with you. So I have this guy friend and I'm extremely sexually attracted to him but he's just ah for now a friend on the same masters course and I never see him much outside of that but I can't get him out of my head I've never had sex with a man outside of the ones I've met on dating apps. So i. Really fear rejection and making things awkward with someone who I have to spend a year with help l o l um, and then the first comment sort of like yes answers this in a way that I want to use to make my point all right. This first says many many years ago when I was a team. My sister had a friend sleepover. And sister went to bed and her friend stayed up with me. We talked till five in the morning when she came to sit with me and a tiny nightgown I thought that's just her pajamas put my feet on the coffee table so she put her feet on top of mine and all I could think of was oh no, she wants her feet there. Maybe I should move mine when she moved closer I figured the couch was uncomfortable where she was when I finally said. Okay, it's super late I better go to bed. She said it's not that late and put her hand on my leg I smiled and went to bed six years later actually did hook up with her. She laughed at how clueless it was that night follow on. There's nothing else. Interesting. There. Okay, first off, it's much hard I mean men have to negotiate this with. Ah, there goes our first military aircraft overhead. Ah like men have to deal with this constantly like they always have to be the aggressor and they have to be the aggressor in a context where ah.
[27:58] Keith and Mike: People are really sensitive to men being aggressiveive increasingly in sort of the modern age right? And so I don't really have that much sympathy for women who complain about this isn't I mean isn't her isn't the real fear like okay, there's a chance that he would wish there's things that he could be gay. He could be in a relationship so that he would reject her. Okay, those things would happen kind of quickly. Yeah what's the downside risk here I think the downside risk is that so let's say let's say that she decides to proceed by ah well like I one time ah went to the bath I was at a bar with a few friends and 1 of them was this. Ah, young lady and I went to the bathroom. She followed me into the bathroom and proceeded to or initiate oral sex on me. Okay, that's really aggressive right? Yes, now the problem with that behavior is that.
[28:56] Keith and Mike: The guy is highly likely to be receptive to it. This was a little tricky because it was at a bar but we don't have to get this specific. Yeah this but like but the problem is she could get her feelings hurt then because he's going to likely say yes I will accept the blow from you but that doesn't mean anything about their relationship status and so she's not actually getting what she wants and so. Would mess up their relationship in the sense that she would then be sad about what happened and he would have to navigate that and so forth should a woman never initiate then like does it does a woman being isn't that what? yeah super available. Okay. Okay, sorry I'm getting ahead of myself here. All right? Let me finish the initial question does a woman being super available make it less likely that the person she's being available to will see them as a serious partner. No I Don't think that's right. It's not that it's that it's that it just doesn't give you any her and any information right? Like yeah he he's going to say yes, most likely unless he's gay or yeah relationship like there are things where he would say no or like if it's very not a good situation for for whatever reason, but he's probably going to say yes. Um, but yeah, she just doesn't get that information and so she's and so yeah, this is I think this is fundamentally why women don't initiate because it's actually quite risky for them to do that. Ah I think there are situations with men who are prohibitively shy.
[30:28] Keith and Mike: Where yeah I don't know okay, well fine. What's the flip side is there a situation is there a situation where women shouldn't initiate where they should not should not I like let's say they have let's say they have the hos for a guy. They don't know if he likes her or not this is hard to imagine but the let's say. She can't tell if he likes her like I think the problem where the guy can't tell if the girl likes him that's super common but the opposite is sort of like the null set but to the extent that situation emerges where the woman is unsure if the man is into her. I think they're limited there limit I mean so I can give another example from my experience. The first girl that I had sex with in high school. Yeah, ah so I yeah I mean I had never had sex with a girl before I like had very limited I'd like kiss so I understand right? but there was very little. She was more experienced than me and she I mean in retrospect she threw herself at me. But even in that situation throwing herself at me just was kind of like cuddling fear and sort of wait for me to take theirness from there. Well I mean I maybe you had a similarest experience in high school I didn't. I took it from there slower than in retrospect I should have because it should have been obvious to me what was happening but I was not sure because it was so unusual and my life never had that happen. Yeah so I was unclear. But I think that's basically as far as women typically would go and should go.
[31:57] Keith and Mike: And then part of that is I think they're trying to retain like the emotional upper hand that they can still stop things and have some conversation or something because they want to. They're not actually looking just to get laid right? then typically right? Yeah, they might be looking to at laid right? then but they're not looking to just have a one night stamp think women generally are not that excited of ellenite stands. Yeah yeah, of course if they're just looking for sex. They should just initiate it till someone says yes, which will take a sample size of 1 that's right? but the in this one going 1 on average questioner is actually not That's not no I know do I know? Yeah I know if yeah I mean and and that doesn't happen that often and when it does happen. The woman is reliably going to do her one I stand with like some sort of Chad. Yeah, like it's not It's whoever's listening to this. It's not going to be you. What's happening. It's the guy who's that guy you know who's out fucking right now. What're listening a podcast right? Yeah, he does a need advice where if anybody listens to this podcast while they fuck you know I don't know probably not I don't think this is yeah that kind of material. Okay, this person asks. Ah, soon. Do you wash your dick after sex. My birthfriend rushes my boyfriend washes his dick immediately after sex and he was surprised when I told him some men don't when I say immediately I mean within 60 seconds please be honest, just curious. What is typical so I was thinking about this.
[33:26] Keith and Mike: And I've long been aware that the medical advice for women is to clean up after so sex to avoid utis little a pee to pee. Yeah yeah, um, that doesn't mean wash their vulva sure while they're in there. They might want to clean up, whatever fluids. Something you complain if the woman doesn't do it? No. Okay, but like hey yes, okay, fine. So the medical thing is mostly just paying is just but I think it's polite polite I really have a problem speaking today I think it's polite to clean up any other. Are you saying if if you you've had a condomless encounter and you've ejaculated inside of her she should push out the semen to the extent possible into the toilet or something no or well let yeah say toilet I just mean you know like in and around her vulva. There's going to be some like semen and some of her own fluid. Yeah, she might want to take a okay she might I don't think that's right with us so where I'm going with this. Okay I'm curious. Is it medically advised for men to clean up after no I don't think so I mean it gets a little It could get a little crusty if you don't clean, it. And all. But there's no rush I don't think there's a rush I don't think well the uti I think is really not an issue I think because you have a much longer. Yeah I'm sure somebody's goingnna write in and say like well men can get utis from sex too. But I think it's maybe much youal sex very hard anal sex where you're sure hounding.
[35:00] Keith and Mike: Slowly pounding a column of Pc did you either? Yeah no I would do it? Yeah yeah, I don't think men get UTs from sex very often. No, it's not I don't know anyone who has right? and basically every woman I know has yeah so yeah. Yeah, okay, but in terms of yeah cleaning I mean this is not a behavior that I like it's just not okay in my life I have washed with soap my penis after anal sex I've done that. Yeah after vaginal or oral sex. It's not really something I think about okay. You might incidentally but it might happen but it's not right? Yeah I mean it would if there would yeah there was something unusual going on there but actually normally there's not a whole lot of ah anything on my penis requiring I would notice if there word might start itching for some people. Do you think this woman is.
[35:57] Keith and Mike: Correct to be offended. She doesn't say she is but I think she's I think it's implied. Not really I think I think I don't know why she would care. It's like do you I wouldn't care I feel like I can imagine it being offensive to her because if he's like racing to get her off of him. There's other contexts needed like if he never gave her rural sex. There were other yeah let's say like clearly grossed out by anything having to do with the vagina. Well I mean once you're not horny. It is kind of gross I mean it would be would this would be sort of like if I got offended because. Ah, girl that I was having sex with didn't want me to pull my cock out random times and rub it on her body I mean like she's not in the mood and yeah, when the guy's finished with sex. He's definitely not in the mood. Yeah I don't know if that's the right analogy. There's something about his haste. No guy that could be considered offensive I think maybe he thinks it's same as for a woman needing the pee. He's just misinformed. Yeah, maybe okay well speaking of p. Been a while since we had a squirting topic at least 3 episodes? Yeah, ah, all right? This person is a 24 year old female. She says I have been dating my girlfriend 25 year old female. So these are lesbians for about a year and I'm having trouble getting in the mood because of the squirting our sex life was amazing until a month or two ago I knew she was a squirter.
[37:29] Keith and Mike: Our entire relationship. But recently I went down on her and it shot to my mouth after that I went from finding it very hot to avoiding sex because of it for some reason I haven't been able to shake the thought of it kind of being p It's more than kind of honestly the idea that I got piss in my mouth here. She goes. And get pee on me every time we have sex prevents me from finishing and it's made me not want to have sex you can feel she doesn't even want to she knows it's pee but she's conflicted herself I've always known there's urine and squirt I guess getting in my mouth changed feelings about it I don't know what to do because I Love my girlfriend I Miss having that connection and she's noticed the shift. Sex drive is like that of a teenage boy and sex and important part of the relationship for her. She started getting insecure and asking if I'm still attracted to her. How do I work through this mental block. Okay, do you think women can train themselves to squirt or not squirt. No I think it has to do with Like. Urinary incontinence. And yeah, there are certain activities and specifically like vigorous aren't there exercises that old people do to like help you can do basically kegel exercises. Okay, so yeah, yeah, I mean right, you could you could improve your what you call that pelvic floor. But I mean I think some women. Aggressively try to make themselves squirt more maybe not. But I think the way that you make yourself squirt more is by aggressively rubbing your G spot. Basically you're like applying pressure somehow to your bladder or something or you're doing something that's inspiring your bladder.
[39:00] Keith and Mike: To Release I don't think so I think it's that your're um you are I mean so right we're confusing I'm not sure you're you're confusing or messing with the muscles that hold the ure or closed I see they're too nearby. The Juice spot. Yeah. So based well it is I mean the G spot is where the urethra runs ah sort of over the the the interior of the Vagina. So Basically if you behind the G Spott Yeah well yeah, I mean it's all kind of intermingled there like so just from the point is like if you if you if you. Stimulate that area. The question is like what is keeping the pee from coming out and it's a little muscle in there. The pebo Coxel Musk Pil If you could say anything and if you see it's the puity muscles. The Pc it. It's the same when the menus. It's just that when um when you squeeze your when you sze. So yeah, think about it when you squeeze to stop the flow urine right. It's the same musculature that squeezes your anus shut and it's sort of down and right now so think about where that is in your body. That's basically like where a woman's vagina would be yeah, that's where the muscle is and so and so you met and and then yeah like it's like if I rub you know some muscle in your body a whole bunch. Muscle won't work as well for a while because I've messed with it I don't know exactly why that is like biologically but it's certainly a thing and so yes, they're you're just you're just doing that. So could this one cut this one in.
[40:28] Keith and Mike: Yeah, detrain herself to need such aggressive stimulation and then slowly rebuild I think once the horses are out of the barn there. It's tough. Yeah well the thing is if she's not getting vigorous G spot stimulation and she's um, squirting like that then I would wonder if yeah if there's like a medical thing. Because it might she might have problems you might have incontintence and other situations. But I mean there are Lesbians I'm guessing she hasn't had a kid etct Cetera Cetera Yeah, having a kid can mess with the muscles in that area too being older can mess with it. So So Forth. Do You think you could tolerate a relationship with someone who squirted. You know, 2 out of 3 times. Yeah you it sucks I Have to be honest that I think it would be Irritating. It's which is funny because the it's like fetishized now and I think it would actually be really annoying. Yeah I Don't think it's great. But yeah people it would actually be better. Okay, let me think about this would it be better if it weren't pe This reminds me of last episode where Er and I were discussing whether you'd rather consume your own semen from the source or from ice cubes you froze ah see what would I rather have it be some other substance or pee I think it doesn't matter I think I don't I don't. Favor The idea of having something squirt out of the woman in my if it just happened but it's even annoying if it just happens on the bed like there's no good place for it to go. It makes a mess right? and like it's a fluid so it like soaks through stuff and it doesn't smell great depending on you know their.
[42:00] Keith and Mike: Diet and hydration right? I mean it's fucking pee man like it's it's not something well now like I don't I and be what I need to pee when I'm sleeping I get up and use the restroom because I don't you're saying you don't pee in your mouth. No or my bed or your bed right? Although you're right I guess if i. Didn't feel like getting up I could just consume my but right to keep it from getting all over the place. That's right, you could have sort of a condom attached to your penis that then goes into a bottle. It could be a product. Yeah or I would need a bottle that's larger than sixteen ounces as discussed earlier this episode right? yeah. It is pretty different though I think than like male ejaculate in some important way I'm not sure like maybe the quantity is higher squirt. Yeah yeah, it's p that's that it's different. Well okay, hang on if you had to pick between ah drinking ah safe. 4 our tablespoons of your own pe or of your own come which would you pick I don't know neither I guess okay, but they're both bad. It is sort of the same. Yeah they're both yeah they're both repols so a woman could reasonably say to you? Well wait I would rather have my own pee on my bed though. Ah, now I guess I would rather have an semen like but I feel like I would pick semen in the reason why is because I think p would go through to them. That's right more. The I that is exactly the thought I had is that like semen is thicker but like it's it's worth pointing out that like a woman would say well wait a minute you're complaining about some amount of the substance.
[43:33] Keith and Mike: Every single time I give a man oral sex like I have to deal with this stuff squirting in my mouth. So. It's a little. Yeah, the fact that it's pee seems to make a huge and also like I ah I had at least 1 partner in my life who ah told me that she. Had to like block out mentally the fact that there was definitely like my penis was also the thing I peed out of like it bothered her when she would give it world sex to me and so she had to think about it. She had to sort of avoidid then of course I did not pee in her mouth that was a different partner I did that with. But yeah. And actually I mean like you could imagine yourself having to block it out a little because when you're giving world sex to a woman. It's her eu ethra is like right? there. It's not like you're avoiding her p so there is p involved in sex there is but there's a difference between trace amounts and agree a gusher. Um, it's a good time. So yeah, have two more topics I want to talk to talk about today. 1 of them's a little bit more sensitive than the other and the other one's more amusing I guess I'll do the sensitive one first. This person says I came for the food. Not the sex a few nights ago I 28 year old male was at my friend's house for dinner. Few other friends were there as well. All guys all in the same age group toward the end of the evening. My friend said he had another surprise for us. The first surprise was that he finally paid off his student loan hence the dinner celebration. Why would anyone pay off their student loan especially when the Biden administration is paying it off for you right? What an idiot.
[45:05] Keith and Mike: Actually I think pardon I think it's going to be declared I think it's not going to go through. Oh it hasn't happened yet money he hasn't flowed no because you think it? Yeah I've read a couple articles that suggests that it's the way that they're ah claiming to do it is. By some sort of for some sort of covid reason. Yeah, but they didn't provide any reasoning for why this is covid related and it will fairly easily get struck down in courts. Okay, which and then there's like a cynical view that maybe Biden did this just to for pr. Yeah, just for this election cycle and then the next election cycle. He can. Run against the courts that struck it down. He has to survive to the next elections I go first. So yeah, so it's not fair. Yeah, um, anyway, that's not what this is about okay, ah the first surprise was that he finally paid off the student loan has the dinner celebrations. The second surprise is one but none of us anticipated. Friend hired 2 sex workers to service dessert sex workers were literally wearing nothing but aprons despite the initial awkwardness of not knowing how to react to random naked women appearing out of nowhere. The guys quickly adapted to the situation and enjoyed themselves. My friend encouraged us to do more than just look if we want because he paid for the quote full experience. Didn't feel comfortable in that um in that environment. So I decided to go to the bathroom and gather my thoughts when I got out of the bathroom I made a beeline for the balcony and chilled outside. It sounds like he's wealthy. It's a balcony and a bathroom and a bathroom. Yeah, it doesn't chamber pot hiring sex workers.
[46:33] Keith and Mike: He says if I wasn't such a coward I would have walked out the front door and gone home. But I didn't want the guys to see me leave I could see into the living room from the balcony and based on what I saw the sexual energy between the guys and the girls was accelerating a friend eventually approached me on the balcony and and asked if I was going to spend the entire night hiding I said the group sex thing was not for me and then it was time I went home. Friends said it was unnatural for a guy my age to walk away from 2 hot girls who are more than willing to fuck me silly said I like my sex with an emotional connection. My friend rolled his eyes and said that meaningless sex could be fun too. 2 of us went back and forth until I got tired of debating and agreed to at least receive a bookshop for one of the girls. Okay, how might vanimus. But I entered the living room with my friend I was shocked to see the guys having sex already I wasn't even gone for that while our friends are not bad looking guys but I sell parts of them I cannot unsee for the rest of my fucking life I changed my mind about blow about the blow job and decided to go home. Um, all about being sex positive and kinky but unexpected sex with friends after dinner is not something I ever planned on doing. We're gonna come back to that anyway, it's been days since that night and my friends are all distant towards me now I can't stop talking about their experiences in our group chat probably it's ah iphones of blue check marks. Yes. And sharing very intimate photos and video clips. So definitely iphone them because if you go if you go iphone to Android with video clips. They get compressed. It's too bad I wonder if the women knew they were being recorded I've been doing my best to take part of the conversations. But it's clear that I'm the outsider because none of them respond to anything I had in the crew chat I feel like I made a mistake that joining them the other night
[48:01] Keith and Mike: My friend have a point when he said that any guy my age would have had sex with those girls did I fuck up how old was he he's a 28 year old male. Okay I think that ah I think that it's reasonable to not want to see your friends having orgasms your male. Friends I think that's reasonable and I think it'd be reasonable like why? Why are you guys so eagerly participating. Well yeah I mean seeing each other like that's yeah, so there's a little bit of weirdness there. There's only two sex workers. So that means there's only 6 orifices that you have before you be finished? Yeah so you there's a few other friends were there as well. So there's only 6 possible penetrations before there could be some double dipping issues. So I could see that I would say that I think I would either probably do what this guy did or I would watch just out of curiosity. But I don't know if I would want to see friends the friends what makes it. Yeah I don't think I mean I definitely would not want to participate in this if I somehow did want to participate in it I think if I could take a blow and be first. Yeah, blow would be. Better because low at low sti risk. Don't know if there be a condom involved that would matter a little. Yeah but I think in that situation. Oh sorry and it would be important to me that the other guy that I was not be watched by any men I don't want other men to watch me do that either? yeah.
[49:36] Keith and Mike: I don't know why they'd want to watch and I don't want that it reminds me. You just said that you may have watched if it was not somebody I knew sorry I was random I I see right then much rather watching knowing them is what makes it weird like I don't want to? yeah, have that memory It's not just knowing them that makes it weird like in the situation only a few times in my life but I have had situations where I was close to I've never been in direct interaction with a man with an erection. Yeah, but I've been sort of near one and I have seen people having sex live and the man's body is a little threatening. Yeah. I mean he could like it's like look like he could come over do and put think that thing in your body next right? and so there's a little bit of fear. Yeah depends on how big he is and what if I think I can take him and whatever. Yeah, it's not my favorite situation like if it's yeah, a woman is totally non-threatening she has nothing she can stick inside you. Right? yeah yeah I felt a little bad for this guy. Badly I don't think that he should feel badly but that his friends are like this is basically the way it is and they're not going to like come around his point of view. And they are going to definitely like this definitely emasculated him in their eyes and so yeah, if you would have handled it better in the moment and my yeah guys I don't want to share with you like this is this isn't for me I'm going to take off have fun. It would have been 1 thing but that he's sort of like.
[51:12] Keith and Mike: Meekly went out to the balcony to mope. It's tricky though I mean this is a very like testosterone. It is I might yeah like so I'm not sure I would behave perfectly in this situation either like I yeah, well perfectly tricky what is perfect I mean yeah, what if the what if what if 2 of the guys are having sex with each other. The closest analogy I've had here is um I've been to strip clubs with friends before yeah and sometimes somebody will like try to buy me a lap dance and I don't really want to lap dance lap dances make me feel awkward. But now I'm like in this situation where like the stripper is sort of like what what's going on here. It's much more awkward if the laugh dances has to happen in front of the other guys. that's that's yeah that's part of it like I don't like if it's if it's in the if it's in the champagne room or something in nearby or stuff at least then you could say oh well you know I'd like to. Play with your boobs or something like there's something you would pick some body part to be like right? You don't have to you. You have a conversation or something. But yeah, if it's front of the other guys that it's that it's basically just making fun of you right? yeah yeah yeah I think that's sort of an analogous situation. Anyway, yeah I can understand people wanting to keep sexual stuff. Private. Yeah alright, let's move on. That one's sort of depressing. Um, this one was written by a woman and she says I'm asking women that don't like to give blowjobs. Why not I personally love to give a blowjob.
[52:40] Keith and Mike: But reading another post got me wondering something for those women who do not like to give flow jobs why I'm curious and famously. Ah I do not but for various reasons you do not like to give blowjobs I do not like to give flow jobsb or never ah and I don't like to receive either and. You've discussed this on this podcast is up so 87 I believe probably 82 of them this has come up. Yes, um, so if you're interested go back and listen but I was interested. What women who didn't like giving blowjobs like how they would justify it in their minds. If. It's the same as how you adjust? Yeah and it's not okay so that's interesting here's first one would you want? to first say how you just you just you just think it's impossible someone we could enjoy that. Yeah I think it's like so um, imposing and it's hard for me to imagine that somebody. Is really enjoying that I think it's gross like I think penises are gross like there's just various aspects that like it's just hard for me to imagine. They enjoy it and again we've discussed this a lot. You thought that those ones we were looking I understand the counter arguments to what I we were looking earlier at the top. Postings of all time on rape my cock or rate my penis and yeah, sub'red it and you thought those were did you think those were disgusting with you? No I mean I only saw that one. Oh I only showed you I I think I think like I think they you I yeah I mean some penises are not me aesthetic I think yeah I guess I find yeah I find like.
[54:10] Keith and Mike: The aspect of like penetration is adapt to introspect on this a little bit. Oh for sure. Its fright a weapon seeing a penis is not terrifying to me like I read that. Ah, the penis itself is not rile I would say a flaccid penis I think always is unattractive. Yeah they're been. They're sort of weird looking. It's it's so obvious it's just an orin. It's weird. Yeah, it's right? but yeah but it's it's weaponlike and sort of frightening so right? Okay, so what do they say? Ah okay, let's see here first one says are some guys I absolutely love going down on and others that I'm like nah this is literally the only. Time that size comes into play for me, give me something I kind have fun with not something I need to tackle and then somebody clarifies. Do you mean? bigger or smaller. She says it's definitely smaller. Firstly I can barely take cleaning my tone leading or with her toothbrush probably okay and top of my mouth when I brushing my teeth let alone a large penis I'd be sucking on. Second like the others have said it's more comfortable. Okay, so this is something something gag reflex right? Yeah, this person says I I guess it's the pressure of doing it. Well I feel like I don't do it good enough and because of it I just mess up like start using teeth or choking what did Eric say his college buddies called that 1 girl chompper. Yeah, something like Bitey I think jumpers right? Okay, so that so this person's worried about her technique not being good enough. Um, this person says I do not dislike giving blowjobs I even enjoy it at the beginning. However.
[55:35] Keith and Mike: Try so hard to not let my teeth scratch the dick accidentally that I kind of wrap my lips around my teeth and it starts to hurt bad after a couple of minutes oh okay so she makes like a she puts her mouth guard with her lips. Okay I think that's pretty normal. Um, and then this person starting to get close to like. Something I can relate to she says I love poleasing the guy just wish she could comb his hair down there a bit more otherwise I go flossing home is pubic hair I think she just doesn't want a full so you could tri yeah this still isn't this still isn't getting it what bothers you I mean ultimately this is the thing is that what bothers you is something a man would say bothers them is like it's you, you're being violated. Yes, yeah, but I mean the woman so some this woman has no other choice but to be violated I that I we've been through this so many times like I agree I agree and I I even agree that I'm like wrong. But. You know? Yeah so su caned but they can intellectualize the heart like that's what they like but they want to be submissive I know it's I know no I I recognize that I'm like denying yeah something that they want. Yeah yeah, like if a woman was like no, you can never go down on me, you know what? it's analogous to it's analogous to you I know. I can't remember the specific details here. But like you have a thing where you say like women will say that you're not forward enough. Yeah, and so they're probably your situations where you're oh well, you've you've recounted such were related situations where you're say on the couch for the woman and she's she's expecting you to fuck her and you don't yeah and she's sort of frustrated by that.
[57:09] Keith and Mike: It's sort of the Same. It's like they even if they're not completely in the mood. A lot of times. Ah, it's yeah, it's a turn on for a woman. Okay, if they're totally not on the moon. They say no, that's different, but but yeah of course, but there's like there's there's a range of situations where it's actually kind of alluring to them to be. Yeah, just like for a guy you being seduced is compelling even if you start out not completely in the mood. Yeah I mean this should yeah come come is no surprise to to our listeners here. But yeah, like some amount of dominance is generally appreciated by most women right? Yeah. Choosing my word carefully they're usingosing by them if you don't like that's right like it's like what is happening here like they're not yeah they don't want. Yeah I mean this is part like like I think the tip the typical relationship and I know this varies and we've interacted with people where it varied a lot but the typical cadence of Sex. Expected by the man and a woman in a relationship is different with the man typically being higher and I think what makes up the difference between those is some percentage of the time when the guy wants and the woman does not exactly want it and that's usually okay with the woman and that's sort of what's going On. It's like he's sort of yeah there are times when you're totally on the same page about wanting it times you know page same page about not wanting it in the yes middle Ground. It's actually like compelling for her because she feels wanted and she feels like she's like your release vow for your sexual desires and some right? It's actually hot to her even if she's not totally in the mood now. Obviously she's totally not Interested. What's different right? Yeah I think women and probably men people.
[58:38] Keith and Mike: Don't mind their bodies being used to give pleasure to a apartment that they care about Well It's complicated though because as a man you're socialized to be super careful about the emotions of ah of women like so there's this empathy that you're trying to have I mean I understand like where you're coming From. It's just actually it's it's sort of malsocialization in some level. Yeah I think part of why I got this bug in my head is yeah the juxtaposition between the following 2 thoughts like women are to be absolutely respected and you know considered equals and um, you know. Have equal power and you know all this sorts of stuff combined with what is the reality in the bedroom most of the time which is most women prefer to be on the more submissive side I think there's some sort of paradox there. That doesn't get discussed enough and we've discussed a plan so we don't need to getdding. How do you have you ever gotten the feedback for example with the ah woman on top oral where she's facing your headboard. Yeah have you ever forgotten The where I'm sorry yeah, ah, someone's sitting on my face. Yeah, exactly yeah' trying to avoid that particular perfect. But have you ever gotten the feedback because I have from a woman to like she. She's fine with doing that and it works for but it's actually harder for her orgasm which she and she it's actually hotter. It's easier for to get in the mind space of orgasming which is the passive person. Yes I think that and for you that's like I think some women.
[01:00:07] Keith and Mike: And it's less than half ah like being given permission to have some sort of control. Yeah by by sitting on my face but a lot are like yeah they can intellectualize why they should prefer that because they have more control and you know this and that but I think most women prefer receiving oral laying down. Yeah they want. Right? They want to feel more passive and it yeah I mean the feedback I've gotten is. It's like it's just harder to come right? It's just harder to get there and you're like I won. Okay, yeah I mean you would think it wouldn't be because they have more control in the opposite scenario. Well for a guy that's like yeah for a guy. It's easy. Like I actually think it's served for a guy. It's significantly harder to come with a woman on top which is one of the reasons it irritates me that there's so much porn of that because then it's harder for me to find what you're really looking for. Yeah there's enough porn out there. That's true that's true I mean I'm okay. Maybe we can talk about I mean we've ticked over an hour here so we'll wrap it up but there's still is room for a disruptive search pornet engine a porn search engine. Yeah like something just like there's room for disruptive. We didn't get to it when I talked to Eric last week. But um i. I tried the other oculus pay porn site which is sex like real the one we tried before so when I say we Eric and I shared the password. First time he paid I paid this time very disappointing and it's a lot of because because yeah, it's the same. It's the same general issue like the porn.
[01:01:40] Keith and Mike: All the same script the same set of things happen and a lot of it is woman on top because it's it's it's vr so it's difficult for the man to move and it's strange because I just don't think most men get their best orgasms that way. So I don't think men I think in general, it's actually not what they want and it goes along with your point about a porn search an improved porn. Search sort of I yeah I'll say in 1 other thing about porn just two days ago you know at the end of like a 1980 s video game. You could get the not the end but like you could get to the point where you had so many points that maybe you rolled over? yeah you got to like 9 or 99000 you break the counter right. So it's like a million you have zero so I had that feeling I was on porn hup going through various stuff and I got to Wifey's world do you know that is it's a porn from like the late 90 s early two thousand s that was on there. It's this guy who ejaculates just enormous amounts of his wife has gigantic tits. Okay, like what I'm back but doesn't narrow it down that much. But. Well, you can look people can look it out. Sure. But the point is like I I was like wow I got I got got to the end to work more? Yeah, all right? That's a good place to wrap that was episode 87 is that right? 87? Yeah, your mile which may v ah you can find us on Twitter at YMmvpod and our email address is ymnvpod at Gmail.com if you send us feedback. We pay $10 for any feedback and um, yeah, you can also ask us questions there if you want us to ask them on the air. Well by default we'll answer them on the air.
[01:03:14] Keith and Mike: If you'd like to keep them private. That's okay, too. Just let us know thanks for listening and we'll catch you next next week on your mileage may vary and hopefully I'm speaking better.

YMMVYour Mileage May Vary

Episode 87: Youth, Vanity and Sugar Baby Allowances, Masturbation Handedness, Surprise Sex Workers, Washing Penises

Episode Transcript