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Episode 88: Deepfake Porn, "Real" Female Arousal, MMF Threesome Gone Wrong, First Dates

Team YMMV | 10-20-2022 | 1:05:39

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Is your penis long enough to visibly push out a female partner's abdominal wall during PIV sex? Mine is. And so is the one in the video we discuss today. It's impressive. In younger years, I had a friend who called this move "The Alien" -- for obvious reasons.

He had another sexual operation he called "The Cycle." That was when you and your partner had oral, anal and vaginal sex all in the same session. And, importantly, you had to repeat one of the acts, therefore requiring something to come after the anal sex. Add them together, and you arrive at the fairly famous "Cycle With Alien."

Deepfake technology is improving, and it's now fairly easy to find what appears to be porn featuring your favorite celebrity. How long until human porn stars are no longer even required? How long until you can have a computer render a porn scene to your taste on demand? It's no the Holodeck, but it's close.

And, yet another man is disappointed after an MMF threesome adventure. Will they ever learn?

To follow along with the video discussed at the beginning of the episode:

https://ymmv.me/88/big

We get a lot of our questions from Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/88/threesome

https://ymmv.me/88/poop

https://ymmv.me/88/first-date

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is controversial but mostly in good faith I am Keith my co-host is Mike what's new at your castle on the Hill Mike
  • [00:11] Mike: No construction noise for us Keith how is your construction noise.
  • [00:15] Keith: Pretty infuriated by my presumably new neighbors who may show up at some point but they've been doing construction for over six months now and I'm trying to figure out how it can get back at them for the. Noise they've imposed on me for this time. They're not living in the unit while it's getting its multimillion dollar refurbishment yeah and yeah I don't know there's nothing I can do. It's basically we we we.
  • [00:37] Mike: Yeah, of course of course they're just imposing that on you. It's troubling.
  • [00:48] Mike: No.
  • [00:51] Keith: Brainstormed about this before we started the show and didn't come up with anything anything good. Um, we haven't looked at a porn video for quite some time like months right.
  • [00:53] Mike: Right.
  • [01:08] Mike: That's right and I would note that um, we posted that that's right we well I mean we obviously probably on a daily basis look at some of the the beautiful What is it spot soccer is the beautiful game and porn is the beautiful video beautiful. That's what we all want.
  • [01:09] Keith: At least not together.
  • [01:21] Keith: Sure yeah.
  • [01:25] Mike: Um, when I posted on the show notes the picture of the couple weeks ago maybe three weeks ago the picture of the um sugar baby that we thought was particularly attractive. There was some dispute about exactly how attractive I noticed that got a lot of clicks so we do know that when we ah bring people's attention to.
  • [01:36] Keith: Um, ah.
  • [01:43] Mike: We don't track people too. You know exhaustively but we do know how many clicks we get on things like that. So so I thought maybe yeah this this is a particularly compelling video clip that I think we should be looking. We should look at and it will be in the show notes. Um, it's not particularly long. It's an animated gif kind of thing. Um and there is sound you can turn on the sound if you want.
  • [01:52] Keith: Ok, ok, so there's no, there's no sound wait a minute can animated gifs have sound now.
  • [02:03] Mike: Um, and it lasts. Maybe yeah I mean you know it's a little surprising to me that you don't know this Keith but most of the porn subreddits these days are like on redgifs.com or they're not pornhub anymore and and yet typically those have sound and actually a tip to the men.
  • [02:16] Keith: Um, yeah, okay.
  • [02:22] Mike: And women out there who are looking for the best content even if it doesn't have sound controls on it. A lot of times you can right? click on the video select or on the whatever Gif the video you can select show um, controls and then max and then full screen it and it will. It's a lot of the ones that don't appear to have sound actually do have sound.
  • [02:39] Keith: Okay.
  • [02:41] Mike: Ah, this one is easier to it's a better ui than that it has sound very directly in the Ui in the bottom right? so.
  • [02:45] Keith: Fine but the animated Gif format itself has something been updated in the format where it can now carry sound. Okay, fine people just call short clip videos.
  • [02:53] Mike: It is not no, there been no technical improvements almost all and so-called animated Gifs these days are just videos. Yeah, they just yeah, they're just short videos I think you should watch this with the ah that's right I think you should watch this with the sound on because it's part of the.
  • [03:02] Keith: Gifts because for a long time. They were okay, yeah, part of the reason why I'm wearing headphones now because I don't want the feedback to come through the microphone but normally I do not wear headphones and ah.
  • [03:08] Mike: Compellingness of it and it's only 12 seconds so
  • [03:20] Keith: I mean I Guess it's Good. You can't hear the table saw currently running in my backyard. But yeah I often mute my computer because people in the apartment next door can hear it and so. Yeah, this change where like porn gifts now have sound is something that I I guess I've sort of noticed but ah but I haven't um, actually I guess I hadn't internalized it all right anyway enough on.
  • [03:39] Mike: Um, yeah, yeah I hear you.
  • [03:53] Keith: Technicalities of of gift watching. Um.
  • [03:53] Mike: Sure so we'll post this in the show notes and you can count down and and if people want they can get the video and watch it along with us. It's only 10 seconds or 12 seconds or something so it's not take very long.
  • [04:04] Keith: Okay, hold on all right I have the sound activated. Ah I am ready to press play. Are you going to narrate it for us. Okay, let's go starting 3 2 1 now.
  • [04:09] Mike: Um, okay, yes.
  • [04:17] Mike: So it's from the female perspective I realized that I and it's a man plowing a woman and the thing that you notice immediately is that his penis appears to be actually causing her stomach to bulge out as it gets in there and actually it's repeating already. She says something I think it was coming out through my.
  • [04:29] Keith: Wow! yes.
  • [04:35] Mike: Computer speakers. So I had to mute it or lower it significantly. She actually makes note of it in the audio and then rubs her stomach I was curious if so this is pretty compelling right? I mean? Yeah yeah.
  • [04:47] Keith: Um, how.
  • [04:53] Mike: I Mean it's It's very so let's let's start off with the basics here. We can agree that that is his penis making her lower abdomen bulge out correct like I don't think this is a trick.
  • [05:01] Keith: Um, um I think that someone might be able to pretend to do this. But I think that that is not likely the case here I think.
  • [05:06] Mike: And it. Um, it's very calm.
  • [05:16] Keith: The like most likely case is that his cock is causing some sort of ah bulge in her stomach.
  • [05:20] Mike: Yeah I mean you noticed that if if you're the woman. It's bulging out sort of on the the right side not on the left like it's pretty clearly like Cock Width the area of the bulges right? It's not in other words, it's not just for like tensing those muscles.
  • [05:37] Keith: Um, yeah, she puts her hand exactly where the bulge is coming from to although she might do that Even if she were faking it.
  • [05:41] Mike: Yeah I don't think there can be any doubt here pretty compelling right? I mean I I think ah.
  • [05:50] Keith: I'm like 80% that that okay, we we don't okay, we we largely agree that this is likely as cock.
  • [05:56] Mike: Yeah, so you've never experienced this in vivo as they say no um I have actually have done this. No no, it was a adult woman.
  • [06:00] Keith: No I have not. But on a on a child.
  • [06:13] Mike: And I would say the key was she was extremely thin extremely thin and then there's some sort of angle where you get kind of an upward angle and pretty similar to this type of thing. Um I think that when I did it I had to sort of push down our abdomen a little bit with my hand but you could get yeah this sort of.
  • [06:17] Keith: Ah.
  • [06:28] Keith: To like maximally sort of flatten it out so that you could notice huh.
  • [06:31] Mike: Bold exactly exactly and you could like push down on the abdomen and feel your cock through it. Yeah anyway, we can put that in the show notes to people can yeah it's It's pretty impressive stuff right? and it gives you a nice ah internal visual of the depth of penetration.
  • [06:37] Keith: Yeah hm.
  • [06:51] Mike: I would know by the way that there's this trend. There's a subreddit for it I can't remember what it's called. It's called like invisible dick or I can't what it's called. There's this trend where women ah post pictures. It's not women. Men post pictures of women with penises fully inserted and then try to like make an outline of where the penis would be and then there's another insider body and then there's another one where women will or there pictures of women with a cock. That's not inserted that's sort of in front of them to show like where it would where how deep it would go and another one where they'll like have another like maybe a tape measure. To show you like how far up in their abdomen a take like a ten inch or eight inch penis would go right? So you'll get that you'll get this visual visual that like an eight inch penis would get like far above her belly button in my ah experience I think that's a little bit. There is I just don't remember what it's called sorry yeah i'm.
  • [07:31] Keith: Aha.
  • [07:40] Keith: Um, there's a subreddit dedicated to this huh? Yeah yeah, show nights made me. Okay.
  • [07:45] Mike: People maybe somebody can write and if they find a I frequent and Nsf W 4 one one which is just sort of like a a subredd where people post like weird questions and things they're looking for and this surely came up in there. The thing I wanted to say is that I actually think that. The depth of penetration implied by these tape measures and so forth is often incorrect because what people forget is that when the penis is or maybe never know is the penis doesn't like just go straight in right under the abdomen it goes ah in a little the vagina goes up at a little bit of an angle.
  • [08:14] Keith: Sure I say I see.
  • [08:17] Mike: Into her body and so it's not as a little bit of a hypotenuse thing going on there so it won't go quite that deep. Um, yeah, so but but even so this this um this video here does show that it's possible to kind of jam you know jam it in there and do something they're probably orienting their bodies.
  • [08:30] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah I think that this is ah as much a camera trick as but I mean it look.
  • [08:34] Mike: Cleverly to get this effect.
  • [08:45] Keith: The the camera work and the positioning is just accentuating What's actually happening and what's actually happening is obvious.
  • [08:54] Mike: Right? So I also wanted to do a quick follow up on something we discussed last week which was the anal Probe chess cheating technology. Um and we don't need to get into the details. Okay, right.
  • [09:00] Keith: Yeah, should we should we remind should we remind is there. Okay, in the Grandmaster Chess World Chess World. There's been some speculation that somebody has been cheating. And live chess matches and it's unclear how exactly he may be doing so but his moves look a little bit too perfect and some have suggested that he might be using a device inserted into his anus that vibrates in such a way that tells him the moves to make.
  • [09:35] Mike: That's right and somebody maybe a third party would be sending via wi-fi or bluetooth messages to this device so people have been doing various experiments. We discussed last week that somebody had made a an anal probe shaped device that could in fact, vibrate in this way and had the capability to receive data.
  • [09:40] Keith: Um.
  • [09:48] Keith: Right.
  • [09:52] Mike: Somebody has now made a device that does that as well. But this one he wanted to test because obviously they use typical detection methodologies like a metal detector wand. There's also a device you can use to detect Bluetooth and wi-fi signals. So this guy wanted to see well you know could you detect something that was inside. Someone's body so his his solution for doing that was to take 1 in a create a device that would be you know sort of this this chess anal probe or whatever then put slices of bology on top of it to simulate. Ah you know, thickness of a person's body and what he found is.
  • [10:26] Keith: Some sort of dampening effect. Ah.
  • [10:28] Mike: Exactly so he just started putting slices on there what he found was was with 10 slices of bologna which is about 2.5 to three centimeters ah the metal detector could no longer detect it nor could the wi-fi and bluetooth detector which is kind of interesting. It means that implies that like.
  • [10:42] Keith: Ha.
  • [10:45] Mike: Ah, something like a butt plug like if you ah it implies that without something like an X-ray detector. You could probably get on like an airplane with some kind of metal thing jammed up your butt and so on and so forth and I thought that was kind of an interesting update. No comment, no comment.
  • [10:54] Keith: Yeah, could you get the muzzle of a gun.
  • [11:02] Mike: This thing isn't I mean this thing is not that much metal right? So that would that would probably be a lot more metal So hopefully not but I was intrigued to see that. In fact, like it's this This may be a larger problem than people so to speak no pun intended than people imagined initially that Ah, in fact.
  • [11:05] Keith: I see yeah.
  • [11:21] Mike: Assuming there's a couple centimeters and I think there is of tissue around your rectum you probably could do this and run go undetected. They also pointed out you could put it in your shoe which is less fun. Um.
  • [11:23] Keith: Flesh. Yeah.
  • [11:34] Keith: I Wonder if this chess player is sort of sitting at home at night getting really nervous as he can see that the internet investigators are getting closer and closer to understand how he perpetrated this crime or if he did do it if he's just like amazed at.
  • [11:46] Mike: Um I think yeah.
  • [11:52] Keith: The sort of things that people are proposing that he may have done and he's sort of chuckling to himself.
  • [12:00] Mike: I Think right now the bigger reaction is just people. Ah, it's kind of yeah, it's kind of funny. It just shows like ah ignorance is bliss like people are realizing just how straightforward it would be to cheat. So then you start wondering well is everyone. It's a little like performance enhancing drugs in sports.
  • [12:14] Keith: Yeah, yeah I mean when we used to sit near each other when we were working together I always thought that your obsession with people cheating in the chess games you were in was sort of overblown. But.
  • [12:15] Mike: Start thinking? Oh well, if this is that easy then everyone's doing it.
  • [12:32] Keith: Yeah I now fully recant my mocking of you about that. Ah.
  • [12:34] Mike: To be fair I never yeah I never believed it was more than say 10% max or maybe 20 There's it's not. It's not a hundred or anything. But yeah, there's a long but there's a lot of it's annoying. Yeah.
  • [12:40] Keith: Yeah, but you would obsess over it and I'm sure it is and now I think it is much more likely to have been the case than I did at that time So that's my way of apologizing I Guess most you're going to get all right.
  • [12:54] Mike: Yeah, there we go So I got another topic here. Um, so there's a I don't know if you're aware of this but there is a site that has deep fake porn Essentially deep fake porn is where they take.
  • [12:59] Keith: Let's move on. Okay.
  • [13:08] Keith: Of what celebrities or oh go on.
  • [13:12] Mike: Yes, yes, so I ah ah chose some female celebrities while I was having a porn enjoyment session some time recently and I was pretty surprised at how ah I mean look it's okay, it's obviously not.
  • [13:23] Keith: Um, aha.
  • [13:32] Mike: Celebrity having sex like it's not however I was surprised that like it was pretty much good enough to trick my brain and it and and the other thing is yeah yeah.
  • [13:40] Keith: How hold on wait What what wait can I can I say a couple things because I don't want to forget them. Ah, how did what worth The what were the failure modes of it.
  • [13:51] Mike: I Mean they'll have multiple videos of the same purported celebrity and they don't have the same body type exactly So it's obvious they can't all be real.
  • [13:56] Keith: Yeah I mean there have been right. There have been photoshops of celebrities on other nudes bodies for a while I remember back when the amount of porn on the internet was a little bit more finite than it is Now. Would sometimes see celebrities heads smacked on top of photos that I've actually seen before and I like oh I know if that's enough then because I've seen you know that that photo with the real head and the past and sure no I I understand here. But yeah.
  • [14:23] Mike: Right? Well that was first of all, that's a photo right? and they've moved on to videos.
  • [14:33] Keith: Um, I've seen some of the stuff. Well, for starters, you know we've both use Zoome where you can put like you know the avatars that you know, go over your face. It could be as simple as just making it look like you're wearing sunglasses or a hat to actually changing your face to someone else's and I've seen demos of ones that impersonate celebrities and they look. Pretty good.
  • [14:54] Mike: That's right and I I was surprised the thing the 2 things I was surprised for number 1 is that you're right? There are some failure modes it the body types don't always correlate and they'll they'll just be obvious things like fake boobs that are just very obvious that maybe the particular celebrity in question has fake boobs. But it wouldn't these are there's they are elements that very much in certain videos look like a porn actress on the positive side though like generally I thought that it did a good job of fooling my brain and secondly I was surprised to find that it actually made the videos more compelling to me because. Yeah, basically my brain thought oh this is such and so celebrity having sex and I was actually aroused by that more than I would be if it was a random person so there's some reason why like the celebrity thing and I'm not really a celebrity follower watcher but it really did enhance the pleasure I was receiving.
  • [15:29] Keith: Right? right? yeah.
  • [15:42] Keith: Yeah, no I hear you I mean I know you don't have I mean both Eric and I have discussed in the past on this show this feeling of shame after masturbating sometimes and I think you don't really feel that but I feel felt right? ah.
  • [15:54] Mike: Um, I feel negative shame like pride. Yeah.
  • [15:59] Keith: I Felt particular shame when I would use some of these celebrity fake photos. It's just it's like I just can feel how much I'm like sort of short circuiting my brain and it just felt particularly embarrassing for some reason.
  • [16:04] Mike: Her.
  • [16:14] Mike: Oh like yeah made me like it more I was like oh this is good I made me.
  • [16:19] Keith: It's not that it fooled my brain too I just didn't like that it was fooling my brain or I felt more shame about it. Um have you have you used dolly or the Google um you you type in.
  • [16:24] Mike: Huh. That.
  • [16:34] Mike: Yeah.
  • [16:36] Keith: Some text and it spits out an image. Um, so you could say like you know, show me a picture of a mouse dunking a basketball. Ah right? Okay, you're definitely going to be able to answer my question which is yeah, you can't use it for porn.
  • [16:40] Mike: Yes I was banned I was banned from dolly pretty quickly. Actually I asked it so we won't let you do pornographic stuff. Yeah, you can't use it for anything pornographic I was one of my first things I tried then I asked it to show me.
  • [16:53] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [16:57] Mike: Some Mormon Missionaries around a Keg sharing beer and I tried various elements of that and that it didn't then I got banned it was somewhere around that I got banned. It was basically I was trying to make sort of offensive religious imagery and I think so I think a human must have been watching what I was asking for and I was.
  • [17:01] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [17:15] Mike: Slowly getting it more and more realistic. Ah I have no affiliation or ex affiliation with the Mormon Church it was just I was just entertaining myself and um, yeah, yeah, exactly.
  • [17:17] Keith: Yeah, no, it seems probable that they would not want the negative pr associated with you know you to say something with Muhammad or you know you just don't want to get in trouble right? yep.
  • [17:30] Mike: My plan of course was to was to make a funny picture and post it on like the X Mormon subreddit and then the people would get a good laugh and that was it That was my I wasn't going to go beyond that but whatever like yeah was he was banned immediately. You can yes that yes.
  • [17:40] Keith: Okay, so you can't use that for porn but that won't last long soon soon you will be able to use these things for porn.
  • [17:49] Mike: But yeah, this is the other thing that it leads me to think is that and and there would so I saw a video you're of of course familiar with the metaverse and ah meta the former Facebook's new strategy which is not yeah and so there was a video I saw which was I mean I don't know why they.
  • [17:54] Keith: Are.
  • [18:00] Keith: Yes, they introduced legs the other day I read.
  • [18:08] Mike: Tend to use Mark Zuckerberg as there like he'll be like though he's okay, but he he should use someone more attractive and compelling and less robotic. But anyway there was a video they made of yeah too. Well I mean or maybe just someone female.
  • [18:11] Keith: You know why? it's because it's because Mark wants to.
  • [18:19] Keith: Mike you you don't say that is a boy that is a radical idea there.
  • [18:28] Mike: He female and or human Ah, but they yeah so anyway they made a deep fake of him or it was It was an avatar of him but it looked very realistic and it was not him right? and he's talking for I don't know how long and then he was talking about how it maybe you saw this video take you talking about how long it takes to render right now. But I was thinking as I watched it I Thought oh this.
  • [18:36] Keith: Right? who.
  • [18:48] Mike: This is going to be pull porn. This is what porn will be in like 30 years is there won't so I so I was thinking to myself. Will there be no porn actresses I think the answer is yes because ok ok isn't that interesting. So so there's so.
  • [18:57] Keith: Definitely not 30 years definitely not and sorry there definitely will not be porn actresses in 30 years I think it could be on the scale of 5 I think that's I think there's like a 10% chance it'll be 5 years you know 20% chance it'll be 7 you know and.
  • [19:07] Mike: Right.
  • [19:13] Mike: All you have to do is get through Uncanny Valley and then andcanny uncanny valley for listeners. It's like when you start getting close to a realistic avatar you often get something really messed up looking because the body motion doesn't look correct and so forth they have to get that figured out and is complicated problem. But.
  • [19:14] Keith: Goes up in some nonlinear way.
  • [19:32] Mike: At that point I mean it is much better and easier to just you have fully animated stuff. You can. You can have the body types and body shapes be completely. You know, customized right? and and you wouldn't and yeah it it just I thought about that I thought well that that's.
  • [19:43] Keith: Um, whatever camera angle. Whatever scene. Whatever yeah.
  • [19:52] Mike: I Don't know if that would happen with say Hollywood you know movies because people want to know who the movie stars are they follow them. There's a human interest thing there I'm not sure that's although only fans might beg to differ. But I mean generally I think that there's a lot of men who would just consume animated porn and also I mean there's this question of I mean does that mean that you're going to start having.
  • [20:08] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [20:12] Mike: Bestiality ah, etc like things that are not legal.
  • [20:15] Keith: Right? No I mean all right? So 2 thoughts the first is ah I think the thing that would be most shameful at that point would be some sort of data breach where people could look up the prompts that you were giving the porn generator that would just be first.
  • [20:26] Mike: Who right? Well, the first thing won't be porn. Oh absolutely.
  • [20:32] Keith: People that would be career ending right? if they were looking at children or animals or something. Um, but even if it was like you know, even if your wife saw it and you were always looking at like you know like porn of redheads or porn of people with breast size different than her or whatever like you know you would have some some questions to answer and then the second thought I just want to say it before I forget it. I was reading some speculation about virtual music and how music will at some point start being generated by Ais and they might be able to make really compelling tracks but will that be better than Taylor Swift or Harry Styles or whoever the popular pop artists are like ah a lot of their popularity as people like to follow along with their.
  • [21:00] Mike: Who.
  • [21:12] Keith: Realness and follow them outside of their music So like with movies I think it might not happen or at least take significantly longer I just wanted to say that before I forgot.
  • [21:22] Mike: It's a much heavier lift The ah the only thing I would add is that I don't think this is sort of obvious I think but I think the and the place where you will see this first is not something that can generate porn for you I Just think it'll they'll be directors or whoever that make porn.
  • [21:36] Mike: Ah, so these other words will start being porn clips that are uploaded to pornhub and so forth that are fully generated and it won't be um, you won't know about it at first just like these deep fakes that I'm seeing that I found compelling and then ah yeah, and then there's a real problem and I and I think the same thing about cam girls. Ah they.
  • [21:42] Keith: Right? right? yeah.
  • [21:55] Mike: You know if you I was also banned from the cam girls subreddit because I um asked them why they like or if they if why people really would like a dilda that shoots out fake come because I don't think the woman really like that and she'd.
  • [22:09] Keith: Um, this is.
  • [22:11] Mike: They didn't like that they thought that was unacceptable that I was the I don't knows and the fact that I was obviously a man perhaps come band. But it's the same thing I mean you have these women complaining bitterly about different aspects of the cam girl thing and you think wow this is like uber drivers complaining. Ah, your job is not going to exist in 10 years because the entire goal of this industry is going to be to replace you with an ai and it will probably work. Yeah.
  • [22:25] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [22:32] Keith: Right? Yeah yeah, the future is not good for sex workers. Um for men. It's It's just going to get to a point where they may not even need women and.
  • [22:40] Mike: Future for us is for for the consumption though is probably great.
  • [22:50] Keith: Still we we bump into this like every third or fourth episode and I always say someday we'll talk about our our views on the future and the impact that various sexual technologies may have but not today. Ah did you have another topic you wanted to get to.
  • [23:06] Mike: I did quickly I want well actually I mean this also interesting to me so I've come I find ah the typical porn star. Um. The typical kind of produced very produced porn not that compelling frequent listeners will know I prefer more amateur stuff. That's 1 reason why I don't really enjoy most of the stuff on the oculus the vr porn because it's quite produced and one of the things that's confusing to me about that is the behavior of the women in porn in produced porn. And a lot of amateur porn too. Really I don't think maps to actual female arousal and so then I was thinking like what what I mean what does normal female arousal actually look like because it must be that men. Well okay, there's a couple possibilities one is that I have a warped view of what actual normal female arousal is like.
  • [23:52] Keith: Maybe probably not.
  • [23:54] Mike: Another possibility is that porn is is ah misunderstanding it for some reason and then men are latching on to that misunderstood. So I mean I I was curious to get your take on what normal like yeah, what normal female arousal during a sexual act is like.
  • [24:07] Keith: Um, well ok I think there's a third option there which is that the acting is bad.
  • [24:12] Mike: Ok, ok because they're not actually aroused sure.
  • [24:17] Keith: Yeah, and they may not I mean the things that women and directors think men want to see and porn. Yeah I don't know. Yeah right.
  • [24:33] Mike: That's not a question of acting then that's they're being told to overact potentially but what do you I mean? what? what? What actually is the gold standard here I mean what? what do you? I mean if you're having a a really good session with a partner. What what do you? What's sort of the typical you know, sort of between the.
  • [24:36] Keith: Right.
  • [24:48] Keith: I mean Mike you know this varies right? like there are some women who you know get quite quiet and quite in their head. There's some women who you know will do various levels of of talking or moaning.
  • [24:50] Mike: Thirty Yard lines or whatever. Okay.
  • [25:08] Keith: And then you know as I've discussed on the show I've been with women who are extremely loud and.
  • [25:13] Mike: Okay, but hang on hang on so a typical trope in porn is a woman repeating some phrase again and again like in a kind of goading almost manner. Yeah, something like that or yeah, you know rub rub it there you know don't stop.
  • [25:22] Keith: Yeah, give it to me give it to me harder or or just like that. Yeah.
  • [25:30] Mike: Yeah, or or I want you to come and me I want you to come and me out. You know something does that ever happen in your experience. It doesn't happen in mind. Maybe that's.
  • [25:38] Keith: Ah, no, this note the sort of rote repeating of something for like 3 minutes in a row that you sometimes see in porn like that just isn't.
  • [25:46] Mike: Okay, do you have women ever like repeatedly demand that you come in them.
  • [25:53] Keith: No, but I have had them say yeah I want you to come in me I like that that's good. Well my day just went from great to absolutely alexa stop. What did I say to even get her to start going.
  • [26:00] Mike: They say it once.
  • [26:09] Mike: I me write down the timestamp where are we 24 twenty six fifteen okay no no, it's not because we now had this conversation 6
  • [26:15] Keith: You could leave it in. It's a music for the listeners. Okay.
  • [26:23] Keith: I'm breaking the fourth wall. Um I don't remember what I was saying.
  • [26:26] Mike: Go ahead I was um ah it was you did they repeat the same thing again and again or do they just say it once.
  • [26:33] Keith: Oh yeah, I've I've had women. Yeah I mean so I've heard women say I'd like you to come in me and that's good like I like sure or a couple times but not this sort of flake wrote repeating.
  • [26:44] Mike: And they say it once. So what? Okay, so okay so I'll I'll go on like the affirmative here like let me let me give you what I think like Porn actresses should do or what like a normal female response should should look like ah and and maybe you can critique it.
  • [26:59] Keith: Okay.
  • [27:01] Mike: Um, I think that ah at the beginning of the sex act. She should be um, willing and interested but not, but but he's more interested at the beginning in sort of obvious ways than she is then? ah.
  • [27:11] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [27:19] Mike: Typically he is sort of driving the clothes clothing removal the initial sort of set of kind of positions or where you're where you're positioning your body. Um, she is receiving. You know, maybe enthusiastically but letting him you know, put his.
  • [27:26] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [27:37] Mike: Penis in her mouth. Whatever like doing various things. Ah, there's some period of time when she's moving toward being more aroused and maybe going toward orgasm that usually requires some activity That's kind of repeated for a while she does some moaning she climaxes.
  • [27:40] Keith: Um.
  • [27:57] Mike: With some sounds and maybe some utterances and then you the man right? then the man ah starts to move toward his orgasm. She is paying attention to him but mostly quiet maybe moaning depending on what he's doing and then she might make some sounds as he's becoming.
  • [28:02] Keith: Modes of approval.
  • [28:16] Mike: Closer to orgasm and then maybe he would make some sounds as he orgasms and she makes some sounds as well. This is sort of normal to me. Okay, so how come okay so you would say things like ah there women that are louder and less loud during the.
  • [28:20] Keith: Yes, that sounds like a good screenplay for a realistic sex encounter.
  • [28:35] Mike: Build up to their orgasm. There are women who might say certain things as you're approaching yours that intensifies it or gets you more aroused, but it would be kind of simple direct not repeated not like they're dying to have your come in them or something.
  • [28:51] Keith: Okay, well all right? Yes, sure. But I mean Mike recognized that porn is not watched linearly from minute zero to minute 28 or whatever the you know the average porn scene is and so the director is sort of forced to deliver.
  • [28:53] Mike: Yeah.
  • [29:01] Mike: Um, that's true.
  • [29:10] Keith: Audio and visual experiences at all points and all positions in all the scenes in such a way that you know satisfies people who prefer you know a cowgirl or missionary or Dogggie or whatever it may be and so you're going to get some repetition.
  • [29:24] Mike: Right.
  • [29:29] Keith: Some unrealistic repetition of similar behaviors and you know acting as if they're maximally built up in a way that you know if you watch the whole thing is going to feel unrealistic and so that's just like a general problem with filming these scenes and then on the sort of micro level which is like in the scenes itself. You know once you've conceded that it's got this unrealistic acceleration of everything. It's It's a bit of a hard problem to solve for still I think they could do better.
  • [29:58] Mike: So I think so what you're saying is let's say that they have 3 different positions. They have a blowjob they have him fingering her in each of these parts. They need to create their own little mini drama because maybe you are the guy who wants to consume the blowjob part. They need to like.
  • [30:12] Keith: Yes, right.
  • [30:18] Mike: Amp it up during that to make that compelling. Okay, that's really I mean I I disagree that that's I mean I I think I think they would be much better served to simply make videos where you know the climax happens during the blow. Yeah maybe this is all animated but or motivated by the guy only being able to not once so they have to.
  • [30:21] Keith: I Think that's part of the problem. That's not the entire problem.
  • [30:35] Keith: Yeah.
  • [30:38] Mike: Think there are moments although getting more guys wouldn't be that hard. It's the women that cost money and so you figure well okay, fine during that day of filming just have 10 different guys and you know each 1 takes 20 minutes and so this guy does the blow and this guy does the cowgirl or whatever. Maybe that costs more or something I don't know.
  • [30:58] Keith: Um, yeah I don't know I don't really care about seeing the nut anyway.
  • [31:06] Mike: What's very odd when they act all extreme. You know so this the same thing happens on Chatterbait and actually is a bit of a pet peeve of mine. Ah that they will ah the the couples on chatterbat I've actually taken to just picking the top woman on Chatterbait and watching her because.
  • [31:12] Keith: Go on.
  • [31:23] Mike: Usually Chatterbat's pretty efficient marketplace to get highly attractive women and even though they're the most attractive woman is always just going to be milking for tips or whatever and she's going to not show much of her body. It doesn't really I don't care that much. Um.
  • [31:25] Keith: Yes.
  • [31:34] Keith: Yeah I actually kind of I feel like the sweet spot is like the fifth or sixth slot on chatterbait the the top like 1 or 2 or 3 are always. You know they're very attractive people but they're sort of boring or performative in a way that.
  • [31:41] Mike: It could be.
  • [31:52] Keith: Is not compelling for me.
  • [31:53] Mike: It could be. We have different algorithmic sorting things the fifth or sixth for me is usually a tranny. Ah, he's just like showing his anus. Yeah, right, it's I I I explore too much I mean punished for that. But.
  • [31:59] Keith: Ah, the ah the Netflix like algorithm on Chatterbait has decided what you like.
  • [32:08] Mike: Yeah I mean so the but the pet peeve to get back to that is that they will to get tokens they will act like they're about to orgasm almost all the time right? and then they and then you're just like this is crazy like you're you're you're you're having this like.
  • [32:09] Keith: Um.
  • [32:18] Keith: So right right? red right.
  • [32:24] Mike: Exuberant experience constantly for like 3 hours straight and at some point you yeah you realize? well this is all just completely performative. It can't be yeah and that that sort of your and then of course then the indignity of indignities. They don't actually do the nut until they do like a private show and then you have to go on one of the many camsite.
  • [32:25] Keith: Yeah.
  • [32:43] Mike: Ah, those ones that record the cam shows and find them and then you can watch a previous recorded episode.
  • [32:46] Keith: I Mean presumably these women have experimented and a B tested various ways of behaving on camera and so they're behaving in a way that's maximizing their income and well hold on and.
  • [32:59] Mike: Um I don't think so. But yeah, yeah, okay.
  • [33:02] Keith: Let let me let me finish the premise of my question because I think I disagree with it as well. Ah, and so you know they've they've recognized that every time what is that device that they put inside themselves that people can remotely vibrate. What is that thing called? yeah, but.
  • [33:20] Mike: Ah, love ends lovins. Yeah.
  • [33:21] Keith: Love events so often on jetter ba dear listeners. You'll see ah, there's some sort of thing that the cam girl can put inside herself that vibrates whenever you provide a tip of sufficient size and the girl will always pretend like it delivers. And orgass him for like about 4 seconds so she'll she'll just be like talking about whatever the weather outside and then suddenly she'll be like moaning and pretending to have an orgasm for about 5 seconds so that she'll get back to talking about the weather we have.
  • [33:48] Mike: And we've yeah we've asked cam girls. What's really going on there and they it's not they're faking but go ahead. Yeah I just want to make I Just want to say we also did that we did the research to they're faking. Yes.
  • [33:59] Keith: Of course they're faking I mean it's yeah yeah, it was nice that we got them to admit it? Um, ok, well all right? So yeah I mean the premise there was that they do that because they think that's the thing that's tip maximizing they could they? Well maybe it's not maybe if they.
  • [34:11] Mike: Well, that probably is yeah.
  • [34:18] Keith: Were a little bit more coy and required a little bit more ah foreplay they could get more tips.
  • [34:24] Mike: I think for me for my dollar and I've never spent a dollar on that site the most effective cam girls and I think I've said this before are the ones who are just extremely good at communicating and just seem like they're having a good time and don't.
  • [34:35] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [34:39] Mike: Nickel and dime for like the things they're going do because look no but they're not really going to have an orgasm the most you can get out of them is that they nude up and like stick something up their butt or whatever like that's the most that could happen anyway and so it's like well I mean yeah.
  • [34:48] Keith: Yeah, well and even then it just feels like they're they're doing it out of obligation. It doesn't feel. Yeah I don't understand this. You know these cambs will often have a menu where they're like you know number one and I'll fake an orgasm number two I'll.
  • [35:02] Mike: Um, yeah.
  • [35:07] Keith: Ah, you know I don't know take my panties off number 3 like I'll penetrate myself with with x number four I'll penetrate myself with y like they have all these things you can order and yeah, just every time it just feels so obligatory perfunctory.
  • [35:25] Mike: Yeah I Recently saw a ah on chatterbbae I Saw a show where a girl had some sort of it was like a blue kind of relatively short vibrating Dildo and she had a menu like that and number 2 So There was some guy who must have had a lot of tokens 2 of the items on the menu were suck on the dildo. Was one of them lick and suck the dildo and the other one was stick it up her butt and he would just alternate and she would do it Dutifully, she didn't wash it off or anything. She's like.
  • [35:42] Keith: Okay, ah.
  • [35:50] Keith: Ah, that's like ah and it's sports betting. You could do parlays you know? Yeah I went the patriots by 7 and and the raiders by by 3 and you know, but but the parlay changes the odds you have to you have to you know it changes the payout and so yeah, she should. Ah.
  • [36:03] Mike: Right.
  • [36:08] Keith: There There are certain combinations from her menu that she should charge more for.
  • [36:11] Mike: That's right, Yeah, once once she's put it in the butt. She should raise the price for the for the licking of course maybe she has like a condom upper butter. Something mean who knows what she's She's probably done various prep like.
  • [36:21] Keith: Is there such thing as um, what's the device that a woman can put in her vagina that's sort of like a internal condom. What is that thing called. It's just a female condom is there a female but condom I don't know man there's there's some. There's some.
  • [36:26] Mike: Yeah, there's a female condom. Yeah, that's right? Well I think you could use the same thing. The question is whether it would be visible to the guy which it probably would. That's true.
  • [36:38] Keith: There's some crud around the anus itself I think it would be hard to like even with a butt Condom I don't think I'd want to put anything into my mouth that had been in that said condom.
  • [36:44] Mike: But true.
  • [36:47] Mike: I Strongly agree with that statement I wouldn't yeah I thought it was funny that he was essentially he probably wasn't trolling or it was probably his kink. You know he's like this is great I Just love women sucking on things that have just reasonably been of their but.
  • [36:59] Keith: Yeah I mean what does the girl think when like she's sitting there doing things out of obligation for men who are clearly trying to troll her that's got to.
  • [37:12] Mike: She doesn't care because she want wants to get the money and and I mean that the ah it's a lot of people with not very much money particularly in like Eastern europe.
  • [37:17] Keith: I know but she's but she could like reasonably turn into a misandras for the rest of her life.
  • [37:23] Mike: Oh I think I mean go to cam girl problems I've been banned but you can go there and and and read it and I think that's right, it's There's actually to be fair I've been banned from posting. They didn't ban me from reading so that was fine. Yeah yes.
  • [37:26] Keith: Yeah, like you have 20 Reddit accounts how many how many of those have been banned. Oh nice, what? what? a relief all right? We're almost 2 thirds of the way through here. Ah let's get to some ah questions and stories. Um I don't remember why I included this one and I generally avoid disastrous threesome posts because we've covered it so many times but I added this one to the spreadsheet and I don't remember why I'm sort of eager to read it. Okay. I 24 year old female had a threesome with my boyfriend and his and his friend and now he's devastated that I enjoyed myself boyfriend 25 year old male and I have been together for 3 years we've explored plenty in our sex life including fmf threesomes which were fun in the past I was really curious about a mfm giving. A mfm a try but he wasn't comfortable with that Sweden discussed further a few months ago he asked me if I'd be interested in a threesome with his longtime friend. Oh for some context they always had this weird competitive friendly rivalry thing going on boyfriend straight up admitted that he wanted to prove to his friend that he fucks better. Okay.
  • [38:31] Mike: Yeah.
  • [38:42] Keith: I thought that was a questionable reason to agree to a threesome but he really wanted to do this with his male friend. He's the most confident guy. No and genuinely thought he knew what he was doing okay I don't remember where this goes but Mike ah you've you've you've read the foreshadowing fast forward to the threesome.
  • [38:52] Mike: Ah I have feeling the friend fucks better than him.
  • [38:56] Mike: Um, yeah.
  • [39:01] Keith: By far the best sexual experience I've ever had I was pretty much spoiled from start to finish by my boyfriend and my boyfriend was clearly enjoying it too. His friend is physically attractive so that definitely added to the sexual chemistry. Boy. At 1 point. He also ate me out and I came a lot I've never orgasm for receiving oral i. I don't think I ever would I found the dirty talk super hot as well. He was dominant despite the submissive act and it turned me on a lot at no point where discussed boundaries ever crossed the following day. My boyfriend seemed to be in complete shock. It didn't talk to me much and when he did. Made no eye contact whatsoever afterwards it became withdrawn to depressed like you would stay in bed all day just stare at the wall or something every time I saw me was literally doing nothing which is completely out of character Scott to the point for family as we what have to him few days ago asked it what's wrong at first he did want to talk about it.
  • [39:40] Mike: The.
  • [39:53] Keith: But that he confessed that he can't get over our 3 So oh what a surprise he refused to elaborate it just ask me odd questions if I like his friend if I think his fred is better in bed etc I don't think those are odd questions I kept saying? yeah yeah, could be.
  • [40:04] Mike: Was friends probably trolling him.
  • [40:10] Keith: I kept saying no to his ridiculous questions but he wasn't satisfied. He even asked me if I still like him want to be with him which was just odd. He's still morose and I worried that this whole thing at a serious hit back on our relationship. So what do I even do at this situation and I don't understand why he's so upset when he's the one who suggested the idea in the first place could anyone help explain his thought process with what what final thing.
  • [40:24] Mike: So I I have a couple questions for you. Okay, yeah, of course yeah so they're they're done So what is I have a couple questions what is eating or cunnolingus. What are you going to call it dominantly. What does that look like in your mind when she said that he.
  • [40:28] Keith: Update He has to go on a break I mean that goes so that's a.
  • [40:44] Mike: Did that to her dominantly. How did he I mean the only thing I can the the most obvious thing I can think of is that they're doing it at some kind of 69 positions he's basically fucking her mouth at the same time then but that must not be what she means though. How do you do that dominantly.
  • [40:54] Keith: Yeah I know how you can receive a blowjob dominantly right? They call this face fucking. Yeah, so yeah.
  • [41:01] Mike: Oh for sure, you're a audio. It's hard to say right? I mean he can maybe have her legs back. Okay.
  • [41:13] Keith: Ah, she talks about the dominant thing as part of his dirty talk not necessarily as part of his oral. So.
  • [41:19] Mike: So I have another question for you. So let's say that there was an insanely attractive woman that you really wanted to sleep with um but the gatekeeper here is that at the beginning it's required that.
  • [41:28] Keith: Um.
  • [41:36] Mike: You give her oral sex for say 10 minutes while a friend a male friend of yours just watches you give her oral sex would that bother you.
  • [41:43] Keith: A bit but not enough for me not to do it. Yeah I Just don't want company in my bedroom and also I mean let's say let's somebody says like oh yeah, the.
  • [41:47] Mike: You would do it? Ah why would it bother you.
  • [41:52] Mike: Okay, so it's not I mean because you're not, you don't have to be naked. You could be.
  • [42:00] Keith: You can fuck me but you know Mike has to be there I just don't want to deal with that smoke after like I don't want to have to have conversations with you about I don't think I don't think I have anything to be like embarrassed about. But.
  • [42:08] Mike: Ah, you're worried. Okay, yeah I've told you my.
  • [42:18] Keith: Just don't want to.
  • [42:19] Mike: I've told you before my experience at the Mitchell Brothers but I think now sadly is closed and San Francisco is a ah very kinky Strip Bar strip club have I told you that experience I think I might have it. There was this thing they had where you would sit at.
  • [42:25] Keith: Um, yeah, not that I recall seems likely.
  • [42:35] Mike: Well it was I guess it was sort of a relatively normal strip club thing is that right? No I think Center Folds is all nude I'm not positive. Ah I used to.
  • [42:37] Keith: Well, it was the only all nude one in the city right? Ah, never went there either I'm more of a gold club guy Gold Gold club for our listeners is known to be the classier of the strip clubs in San Francisco
  • [42:51] Mike: All right there we go. Um, so there was a there was a I guess dance floor kind of thing that was elevated. There were stools or chairs or something where you could sit right up against the dance floor and the women would. Dance and cavort right in front of very close. It was unlike stripping I mean maybe maybe strippers do this too I guess but like they would get very close to you. So anyway, they would make a point of kind of coming up to each guy and doing something in front of them and probably to get you to tip right? then So The woman did her cavverting in front of me. It was great then she did in front of the guy to the left of me and.
  • [43:19] Keith: Um, soon.
  • [43:28] Mike: She put her legs over his shoulders and she of course was naked and her butt was right at the edge of the stage and then I turned and looked and I saw him lean forward with his tongue out and start licking her vulva and I did not like that. That's my story. Um.
  • [43:30] Keith: Whom.
  • [43:38] Keith: Whoa! yeah. Well,, there's a lot not to like there. Also I can't imagine I'll I mean I do like going down on women. Okay I don't love strip clubs and so.
  • [43:50] Mike: Um.
  • [44:01] Keith: This thing where like men get like hyper aroused at strip clubs I actually have like a little bit of difficulty relating to it's hard for me to get aroused by people that I know are performing for me out of obligation and so I just don't like that aspect of strip clubs and so I can't imagine being.
  • [44:04] Mike: Um, yeah.
  • [44:19] Keith: Aroused in that situation. But I can't imagine being so aroused that I would lick something I shouldn't it just wouldn't be in a strip club. But yeah I mean but man you should not did he get kicked out. Did she say anything or she just.
  • [44:26] Mike: Right? right.
  • [44:33] Mike: Is that no I think he was irregular or something and it was fine I I didn't like it I think I kicked myself out so you're the the licking thing reminds me of the joke I saw on ticktok ah a woman's butthole is like a nine volt battery you know you shouldn't lick it but sometimes you just do.
  • [44:37] Keith: God.
  • [44:48] Keith: yeah yes yeah I have not heard that one but I am aware of what happens when you look a nine Volt battery
  • [44:50] Mike: Something like that the job you may have heard no one. Ah.
  • [44:56] Mike: Okay, so you would tolerate someone watching you other other than your concern your main concern about somebody watching you to get access to this highly highly attractive woman is that that would the stakes would go up next time or somehow it wouldn't that wouldn't be enough. But you would tolerate if if you could be sure that was the limit of what had to happen somebody getting to watch you give oral to a woman in order to get access to something I was just I was curious around like ah dominance around giving oral to women and shame around. It.
  • [45:17] Keith: Yes, where are you going with this though.
  • [45:26] Keith: I see.
  • [45:28] Mike: Ah, yeah I was just curious like how that how men think about that because it's not um, well it's not dominant.
  • [45:35] Keith: No I mean I know that I know that it I know that in some cultures going down on women is considered really shameful like in Brazil in particular I think very very very few men go down on their wives. Um, there's various statistics around that I don't know them on the top of my head.
  • [45:39] Mike: Um, yeah.
  • [45:45] Mike: Him.
  • [45:52] Keith: I Don't think that it's particularly submissive to go down on a woman and I think most women want their partners to go down on them. Um.
  • [46:03] Mike: That seems it's actually surprising to me that such a cultural norm could persist because you would think that. Ah, it's like it's like evolution. The the small set of men who are willing to do that activity would be so much more prized by women that then they would just get a lot more sex right? So if you go to Brazil.
  • [46:15] Keith: I Don't think I don't think most women have more than a few sexual partners in their life. They're not. They're not vetting everybody for candidacy I agree but.
  • [46:21] Mike: Now it's probably right? That's a mistake all right? Yeah yeah, assuming I assuming you quote unquote fuck better than someone else.
  • [46:32] Keith: There's not enough. There's not enough of a selection process to weed out people who are really bad at sex.
  • [46:40] Mike: To the extent that you're going to have a little competition like that particular this is just a terrible decision. This guy made because if this guy really exists because ah just the novelty of it is going to make the other guy have an an advantage right? and so and then what a yeah, what a risk he took there.
  • [46:46] Keith: Yeah, right.
  • [46:53] Keith: yeah yeah I mean I mean he had to watch his friend go down on his girlfriend and give her her first oral orgasm I mean I I haven't gone through something like that. But that would be so emasculating that.
  • [47:04] Mike: Yeah, it.
  • [47:11] Keith: He basically has no choice but to break up what they're after that I mean I guess if he were like super mature he could be like Wow That's great that we now know that that's possible for you. Let's let's let's work on that but man that takes a lot of maturity right? I mean.
  • [47:15] Mike: Here.
  • [47:24] Mike: Yeah, can you help me do with my tongue. What my best friend did to you with it? Yes, yeah, it's rough. Yeah.
  • [47:31] Keith: And then you have to like convince yourself that it that she's not going to be thinking about him constantly I mean well it's just rough. It's rough.
  • [47:37] Mike: Yeah, yeah, it's surprising. Yeah.
  • [47:41] Keith: Okay, well I see why I added that one to the spreadsheet I like that Okay I was going to bring this one up earlier when we were looking at the ah video that had some interesting anatomical visuals. But ah this person asks.
  • [47:51] Mike: I Mean yeah.
  • [47:58] Keith: When I fuck my girlfriend I sometimes feel the poop on the other side of her vaginal walls whether it's my fingers or my dick when she has to go I can feel it on the other side should I Just ignore her tell her that's it. That's the post that she has to poop.
  • [48:10] Mike: She probably knows I mean right? Yes, it's not surprising.
  • [48:18] Keith: I have not known to feel this I am now mildly concerned that ah, after reading this post I will be more sensitive to noticing it I don't want to notice this I don't want to know that this is possible. Um, a few of the comments are pretty good here this what is I got to say after 17 years I can't say I've ever noticed I'm going to check and see my wife will probably be wondering what I'm doing or say this new technique you have is working for me and this guy says ha. Behave I'm feeling for poop. Um, another person says never letting a band near me ever again after reading this, you can feel it so I think it's common that men and women don't recognize that they can feel it have you do you think you can.
  • [49:13] Mike: I have to yeah I have 2 comments about this I have I've had this experience at first it was with the very very very thin woman. Maybe the same one. Yeah, maybe it might have been the same one regarding the.
  • [49:16] Keith: If you noticed that ah I'm sorry.
  • [49:23] Keith: Again with a thin woman. Okay. This this strongly implies. There's some weight below which you don't or some body thought percentage below which things take a turn for the worse. Well, although the first thing was for the better perhaps for your ego. Yeah.
  • [49:29] Mike: Penis visibility through the abdomen.
  • [49:37] Mike: Um, yeah, yeah I don't and she was I don't think she was unhealthily thin just just very thin man I'm not sure right at first I thought I was feeling her tailbone. Ah, but then I thought.
  • [49:47] Keith: Just then enough that these 2 things were became.
  • [49:55] Mike: About the anatomy of the area and realize it had to be poop and then I I have 1 other thing to say which is that I it was my fingers was my fingers I don't think you're it's on yeah I guess if you're in the doggie style position. It's a little unusual for you. Usually your penis is sort of aiming the other way. Not.
  • [49:57] Keith: Um, was this with your fingers or with your pianis or do you remember? okay.
  • [50:11] Keith: I Feel like my finger pads are most sensitive and when I'm going in there with my fingers Usually the pads are facing the direction away from her anal canal.
  • [50:24] Mike: Um, oh you don't like to stimulate her G spot with your fingernails.
  • [50:30] Keith: Right? I Definitely try to avoid that all I mean look it it I definitely have put my fingers facing the other way but ah, it could be the case that I do that so infrequently and that's why I haven't really felt this.
  • [50:37] Mike: Ah, right.
  • [50:43] Mike: Yeah, no I mean I've yeah you sort of feel around sometimes and I've definitely had this experience. The other thing is that um, actually if and I know this from some Google being probably being searching I did at some point in the last year um
  • [50:46] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [50:56] Mike: Women can actually use fingers in their vagina as a way to deal with constipation I know this because I found something talking about that. Yeah, they can. Yeah, let's say you have your constipated they can they have this extra avenue that a man doesn't have to ah to deal with that.
  • [51:02] Keith: Huh.
  • [51:10] Keith: They don't need to express their anal glands. They can just go in through the badge. Oh sometimes when you're trying to poop you can.
  • [51:14] Mike: Why would you? Why would you need to express your anal glands.
  • [51:21] Mike: Go on I don't know what you're talking about.
  • [51:25] Keith: You're making up the I know you're making a face in such a way that I suddenly feel like I shouldn't come with this thought but it's but it's too late now. So here we go. Um, sometimes if I'm constipated I can basically press on my sphincter in such a way that it.
  • [51:29] Mike: Charge And yeah.
  • [51:36] Mike: Our lord.
  • [51:43] Keith: Can help loosen things up. It doesn't always work. In fact I would say it rarely works but it has worked some non-zero amount of time. Not really sure. It's more like a pan I'd I've regret this already. It's more like ah.
  • [51:47] Mike: Do you put on the edge of the sphincter or do you put on the edge of this sphincter or the center where the hole is.
  • [52:03] Keith: I don't know I I think I would use like 2 fingers that kind of go around or side to side I don't I actually know what's happening I I thought you know how you can like express a dog's anal glands like some people that have really old dogs need to do this to get them to poop. Okay.
  • [52:15] Mike: No I would never I don't want to have a dog I don't have a dog and I would never if I had a dog that needed that I would kill it because it you know, get a young dog and of course yeah it doesn't want to live like that.
  • [52:25] Keith: Yeah, that would be that is the probably the compassionate thing to do if like your dog needs help from you to poop might be might be time to call it? Um, but yes it can be done. It can definitely be done in dogs and I think I could do it to myself.
  • [52:33] Mike: Yeah, well or maybe it does want to live like that. But I don't want it to live. Okay, um. Yeah anyway, so the you so that Okay I've never tried that on myself I Um I probably was searching on this because I was constipated though I don't know I don't remember the details if I'm just guessing. That's why I searched it but I did encounter this piece of information that women can sort of reach up in there and if you think about it like you get access to like.
  • [52:49] Keith: Yeah.
  • [53:00] Mike: Kind of a nice stretch of the old intestine that you can then sort of massage stuff down. Um, so yeah I mean like if a guy really wanted to. There's look. There's yeah, there's porn of it I bet you there is porn of that somewhere some guy you reesent him probably.
  • [53:04] Keith: Yes.
  • [53:12] Keith: Can you do it better than a woman can do it to herself like does a man have an angle I mean you have longer fingers.
  • [53:19] Mike: Probably I don't want to because the um when the poop does come out like how do you, you're gonna be there. You're not. It's gonna be hard to get out of the room when the poop comes out. So.
  • [53:29] Keith: I'm trying to think of a situation where I would feel comfortable with a partner asking me to do this.
  • [53:31] Mike: Who oh if I had to if it was like a you know health crisis then sure but I wouldn't wouldn't be my favorite activity.
  • [53:39] Keith: Yeah, but like once you've once you've gone in and squeezed the poop down the toothpaste tube. That's that's not something that leaves the mind quickly.
  • [53:50] Mike: It would be Yeah, it'd be better if I didn't actually see it exiting but we should probably move on because it I know if our listeners are that fecal obsessed I'm certainly not so.
  • [53:56] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right right? Yeah, we've we've done well not getting into fecal matters for a while but ah reset the days without incident to 0 here. Ah okay, this person says.
  • [54:01] Mike: Um, yeah, yeah.
  • [54:11] Keith: Wish putting out on the first date didn't stop me from being dating material. It often seems like having sex on the first date with men means they won't see you as anything serious like I need to wait three plus dates to be serious material to date before I can have sex with them. But I'm a high libido single woman I'm horny all the damn time I want to fuck on the first date if I like you and you're handsome.
  • [54:12] Mike: Um, yeah.
  • [54:30] Keith: So want to pursue something serious I wish these things didn't seem to rule each other out. It's especially an issue because to me sex is important in a relationship I've yet to meet a man who could keep up with me. But even if the libido is not as high as mine I need someone who has high sexual libido and someone who I'm sexually compatible with. And and too many dates I'll need to have sex months after spending time with this person to learn it would wouldn't work out on this level. Okay, well there's a big gap between first date and months but we'll get into it having sex on the first date assuming we're both willing is like asking if the other person wants kids or not It's a matter of compatibility. Just so frustrated. Men seem unwilling to pursue me further work towards something more serious if I've had their dick in my mouth quote too soon as they don't understand it at all from the perspective of the man either. You wanted to have sex with me as much as I did why does this mean I'm not worth investing serious effort and now I don't really know what I'm this last pair of I don't really know what I'm looking for just venting my frustration I guess. The hell can I find a dude will fuck me ah early on and still take me out on dates after is anyone else having this issue or is it just me ah I have something to say to this but okay I've known a number of women who report this complaint.
  • [55:34] Mike: Um, and here.
  • [55:41] Keith: That they sleep with a man on a first date and you know they never call after and I was thinking about this when I when I initially read it. All of them had the same problem which is ah I think they were. Pretty lame dating candidates generally yeah and so I don't know what the deal is with this woman so bear with me here. But I think a lot of women mistake that they're having sex with somebody on a first date is the reason why people aren't interested in them after I think the reason why people aren't interested them.
  • [56:00] Mike: The women. Okay.
  • [56:18] Keith: And them after at least in the anecdotal experience I've had is because they are lame for some other reason.
  • [56:25] Mike: Um, this is ah because when you say they're not. They're lame. It's good you you mean? they're not physically attractive I Assume for the most part. Okay, well other things might not.
  • [56:30] Keith: Over or emotionally or mentally yeah, they're not attractive for some reason I don't I don't think I don't I don't think physically needs to be on there as an adjective that they were physically attractive enough for the person have sex with them once. So I know.
  • [56:42] Mike: That's not a high bar I mean the the ah especially if it's only 1 date the I mean those other ways to be unattractive might take longer to become a parent but I yeah yeah.
  • [56:51] Keith: So out I don't think so I think people show their cards enough on a first date. Not always, but especially if the date is long enough to bed them. Ah, you can get somewhat over read.
  • [57:01] Mike: Um, well I mean a couple things I would say are one ah a really good way. Even if you're not having sex with the guy in the first data because she's saying 1 of her points and I think this is a good one is that she wants. To date somebody who's good at sex and 1 way to know someone's good at sex and this is absolutely true is is to ask yourself does this person host a successful sex podcast and if they do they're probably good at it. So that's my first point um second point. Yes.
  • [57:26] Keith: Ah, right? Why MM the pod at gmail.com ladies
  • [57:33] Mike: My second point is ah that she's I think you basically put your finger on it. There. There are 2 issues one is that the bar for a guy for a for a person that a man will have sex with if they've had 1 date is much lower than the bar for the guy to be willing to go repeatedly on dates with them. And then have sex with them and so it could simply be that there's something unattractive as you mentioned and the other issue is that um men do not men generally don't love the idea of a woman who has a high so-called body count and you can say that's not fair.
  • [57:52] Keith: Um.
  • [58:11] Mike: But it simply is Ah yeah, no I think it I think okay let me let me men. Yeah I mean let me argue why there's There's a rational thing here. Men have much lower standards than women women are ah for who men will have sex with particularly.
  • [58:12] Keith: It's not fair, but it is it is for some people. We've discussed it for. It's not for me. It is for you.
  • [58:30] Mike: If there's not a whole lot of investment required to get to the sex and so so yeah, put it this way if there were an infinite number of reasonable candidates for women that I could have sex with or a man could have sex with ah most men would have a body count in the thousands or higher. They would say okay, they just repeatedly say okay, so you know in human mating and dating women are the folks who have the burden of being selective on them and that's that is sort of there's sort of a select a pressure there now if you have a woman who's chosen to not be selective. That makes the man suspicious right? What about you has made. It's that you don't need to be selective and so then it gets back to your same point. Even if even if there's nothing obviously unattractive about the woman. The man is going to think well there must be something because she's chosen not to be selective.
  • [59:17] Keith: I don't I I don't know there's a chicken an egg thing here I I don't think I have ever changed my mind on whether I want to have. A second date with someone based on sex. The first time that's not entirely true I've talked on this podcast before about the woman who is like so loud that I was actually embarrassed and yeah.
  • [59:50] Mike: Ah.
  • [59:55] Mike: Um, let's suppose.
  • [59:55] Keith: Change my mind and didn't want to have sex with her again I did have sex with her one more time and then it totally and then she was so loud that time as well and it cemented it and I was like ok all right, Never again and that time I kept my promise to myself. But but generally like I Just don't yeah all right, go ahead.
  • [01:00:05] Mike: Let's suppose that you were a let's lose I think there's a certain amount of ego at play there. Let's suppose you were not a highly rated sex podcast host and you were a much less compelling man.
  • [01:00:17] Keith: Um, this.
  • [01:00:22] Mike: So I think what I think is going on is you think to yourself. Well she had sex with me on the first date because I'm awesome. Let's say you were not as awesome then you might say oh she's doing this a lot and it might make you suspicious right.
  • [01:00:28] Keith: M.
  • [01:00:36] Keith: Maybe it's hard. It's hard for me to know to counterfactuals like oh if you weren't you. How would you think's like I don't know.
  • [01:00:37] Mike: Like you don't when when she has sex with you in the first date. Do you? well but do you put it but it this way when a woman has sex with you on the first date. Do you conclude that she likely has sex with most men on the first date or do you conclude that that's probably unusual for her and you're just that awesome.
  • [01:00:52] Keith: Ah, interesting I Trust what she says and what I've detected about her on that front so it might adjust my priors a little bit but I would form my own opinion about how sexually promiscuous I thought.
  • [01:00:54] Mike: Because I would conclude the second one.
  • [01:01:09] Keith: Ah, the person was and whether or not I'm able to close on the first date might affect that prior sum but it wouldn't be much I would believe what she said about that.
  • [01:01:22] Mike: Okay, well let's let's say it was a woman like this one who posted in this the posted wherever she posted and ah you and she told she was very upfront with you and said look I Just like to fuck on the first day. So It's not you. It's just that's what she likes to do would that affect your. Decision making because it would affect mine.
  • [01:01:40] Keith: Ah I I generally I generally don't mind sexually promiscuous women if somebody said that to me I would feel compelled to have a very unsexy conversation which is something like what do you do.
  • [01:01:56] Mike: And.
  • [01:01:56] Keith: To ensure your safety like how often are are you Tested. Do you always use condoms like yeah I would have with a lot of women who are very sex chasing are sort of confusingly unsafe, not all of them. Of course. But ah yeah, that like begs other questions.
  • [01:02:20] Mike: I see I see so you're trying I think you're making ah an effort to be rational about it which is good. It's reasonable. But I think a lot of guys would just be concerned about what the other bodies are in our closet What they look like and would think oh these this is.
  • [01:02:34] Keith: Yeah I think Also. Ah if if I've decided that I'm not interested in someone I don't have enough desperation I guess for sex that I would. Try to sleep with them even though I knew I wasn't interested so there there's another sort of chicken and egg here like I probably wouldn't sleep with someone that I didn't have intentions of seeing again. But I think a lot of men do not have that requirement.
  • [01:03:00] Mike: Right? And that's corporate correct. That's a year. That's the the ah hang on ah privilege you have Chad privilege there that's Chad privilege like white white privilege.
  • [01:03:09] Keith: I suppose but like but so what I mean what is this? Why is this girl constantly having this experience I think she's yeah, but she right? but she's choosing partners in such a way that it's likely that they're going to be lame.
  • [01:03:17] Mike: Because most people aren't most guys aren't chads and so they.
  • [01:03:28] Keith: Now Maybe she has to because the way she looks or the way that she behaves. But yeah I mean that's not a very satisfying answer for her.
  • [01:03:29] Mike: Yeah, probably. Sure But I mean I think it's the right one like she she's not dating guys who have a strong enough and maybe accurate enough ego to feel like okay this is just doesn't bother Me. She's dating guys where they think yeah, you're having sex with guys that maybe for safety reasons Maybe just.
  • [01:03:43] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [01:03:54] Mike: Yeah, they just they just don't want to be they if they saw the other guys I think that's true for you too I think that if you I think it's likely that if you had sex with a woman or were dating a woman and then you learned that she'd had many many past partners and they were not. You were kind of surprised when you saw pictures of them or something I think you might find that bothersome. You're probably just just.
  • [01:04:08] Keith: Yeah, that down level of them a bit.
  • [01:04:14] Mike: Yeah, you're just assuming that's not the case because you figure oh well, they're probably similar to me me similar to you or something like that.
  • [01:04:19] Keith: Yeah I think I map things onto my own experiences generally in life I mean and I don't think there's anything terribly strange about that all right? We've been going for over an hour I'm going to wrap those that's enough for episode 88 of your mileage may vary.
  • [01:04:23] Mike: Right.
  • [01:04:34] Keith: You can find us on Twitter at ymmvpod or send us an email at YMMvPod at gmail.com you can ask us questions or leave us comments if you leave us a comment. We pay $10 just give us your venmo or Paypal or whatever you like thanks for listening and we look forward to catching you next time on your mileage may vary.