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Episode 89: Normalizing Sex Work, Backdoor Escapades, Tricky Threesomes, Are High Body Counts Slutty?

Team YMMV | 10-27-2022 | 1:02:41

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Sex work is becoming more and more normalized within our culture. To a certain extent, that's a good thing. To yet another extent, it's a great thing. I can't count the number of times I've enjoyed a nice camshow while driving from place to place in my automobile.

Sure, at red lights someone might look over and wonder why I have an iPad Pro taped to my windshield. But they know I'm safe, since my car drives itself.

We talk about a lady who is just absolutely impressed by how much better anal sex was than she expected. I had a dream about anal sex last night, actually, but we'll save that for another time. Ditto for the porn I watched today that involved a woman having sex with a horse whose penis was so large that it went in her mouth and came out her vagina (?).

We discuss body count and why the double standard exists between men and women. And, some discussion of how women screen non-iPhone users out of the dating pool.

We get a lot of our questions from Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/89/toy

https://ymmv.me/89/threesome

https://ymmv.me/89/anal

https://ymmv.me/89/body-count

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is controversial but mostly in good faith on today's show we're going to talk about another unfortunate realization during a threesome the discovery of a new pleasure frontier after an anal encounter body counts and much more I am Keith my co-host is Mike Mike just drank sixteen ounces of milk after my run and I'm feeling a little gi to stress is there anything affecting your performance for today's show now I do eat a hard-boiled egg every morning now after you're prompting.
  • [00:26] Mike: Now I'm fine. Did you eat any Raw eggs. No all right? It's low low. What do you call that carb low carb morning thing to eat. Yes, yes.
  • [00:41] Keith: Low carb locale high protein. Ah yeah I'm trying to get.
  • [00:46] Mike: I'm not sure about the milk thing I Assume you it was whole milk. Not not nonfad or whatever.
  • [00:48] Keith: Um I got this sandwich called the Vegan Hippie and it's a really good sandwich I know it sounds bad but it's like avocado and they're like these little shoestring sweet potato crispy things and it's It's a good sandwich and it's on really nice bread as well. But.
  • [00:53] Mike: F.
  • [01:08] Keith: Doesn't have any protein and so I was trying to use the milk to make up for that but sixteen ounces I think maybe more than my my stomach can handle. Yeah I'll see what I could do.
  • [01:11] Mike: That makes sense.
  • [01:19] Mike: All right? Well you can for me to take a break. We can do that.
  • [01:27] Keith: Um, you had a couple ideas for patter today which one do you want to start with.
  • [01:33] Mike: I think we had them in order I don't actually have the spreadsheet in front of me. So why don't you? yeah.
  • [01:36] Keith: Okay, you wanted to talk about how escorts use text messaging to screen their Johns.
  • [01:45] Mike: Oh yeah, sorry I I took a note of that. Okay, so well actually actually the first thing I wanted to? yeah okay, right? So you are. Ah yeah, you're.
  • [01:56] Keith: I'm already annoyed.
  • [01:59] Mike: Generally irritated about this because you are a user of an Android phone I learned by the way what percent of the us cell phone audience. Do you think uses iphones.
  • [02:05] Keith: Man I I was worried that you had found this out. Yes, it is. They have recently surpassed 50% of the United States market it's preposterously high given that they cost $1000 and
  • [02:15] Mike: Um, right? So it's extremely high and so it's interesting that the yes.
  • [02:25] Keith: Some vast majority of those iphone havers. Do you know have no enhanced experience over say a $300 phone and they make all kinds of terrible financial decisions of which this is one and then they're you know, not to mention Apple's
  • [02:33] Mike: Of course that's right.
  • [02:43] Keith: Human rights stuff in China and various other things and then they're going to virtue signal that like I'm the one that's the loser for having an Android phone.
  • [02:52] Mike: Um, was your phone built in Minnesota or something.
  • [02:56] Keith: How I see you're you're gonna take this approach I don't know no, it's probably built a je to do I don't know.
  • [03:00] Mike: I don't know I don't personally care about the human rights thing I just assume everything is that I have is made by you know is put together by somebody who's some awful thing is being done to them ever since I saw that video of ah the um baboon eating the deer that was still alive. But first.
  • [03:06] Keith: Yeah.
  • [03:18] Mike: I Realized that the life is rough. It's life in the big city. But anyway okay look so so a large. But so so first of all when people are using the blue whether it's escorts whether it's a woman who's looking for someone to date.
  • [03:23] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [03:33] Mike: If they're looking for the blue text messages on their iphone to be some indicator of status. It's kind of a curious thing to do because such a high percent and actually the stat I heard was much higher than 50 I heard a stat in the 80 s of percent. Um, so yes, which well that's what I saw. Ah.
  • [03:42] Keith: Of Americans have iphones that can't be right? Ok ok, we'll we'll get our fact checkers out that it and bring it back next episode. But yeah.
  • [03:51] Mike: But yeah, okay I mean but let's just stipulate to above 50 either way. Either way, it's a little bit of a silly way to screen for dating because it's obviously not a high bar when it's that high of a percentage um and but the the reason I encountered that.
  • [04:03] Keith: Good point.
  • [04:09] Mike: Escorts use this is because the green text message on the phone could be that you have an Android phone but actually their assumption is it means that it's somebody on like Google voice. So it's just a troll.
  • [04:17] Keith: Yeah, yeah, exactly it? Yeah I mean it it may be you know it's X percentage of users don't have the green way Blue Blue Check Box is good. That means they have an iphone.
  • [04:30] Mike: Blue. Well it's the blue. Yeah, you've used iphone So little that you don't know that in the messages app. Yes, it's your messages come up in a little like speech bubble and if it's got a blue background that means it was from an iphone if it has a green background it just means non iphone. Yes.
  • [04:35] Keith: Right.
  • [04:42] Keith: If you're fucks sake. Okay, yeah, all right? So so Nonblue havers are are some percent but they're a much higher percent of the of the fraudsters and so it's a really good. It's a really good way to filter out.
  • [04:55] Mike: Um, correct right? So this made me think that. Ah.
  • [05:01] Keith: It's like a identity check. Basically in addition to like a a small if it's 80% it's not a very good wealth filter but it is a good identity filter.
  • [05:07] Mike: Um, yeah, it's definitely not a good whale wealth Victor Beat filter because I've seen many many people who are in um professions where I know they're not wealthy that are using iphones I mean I've just seen it. Okay.
  • [05:19] Keith: Look Mike you're pitching to the choir here I think there's like for me ah people who have a certain income and who have iphones like it's a stupidity filter term like okay these these this person makes bad decisions.
  • [05:31] Mike: So I assume then you would agree that ah it would make sense for somebody either to make an app or for like Google and whatever phone makers to try to come to some sort of arrangement with Apple where certain people get some color other than green right? So if I sent him let's say I'd paid.
  • [05:45] Keith: Oh there's like a middle ground a pink checkbox. Yeah.
  • [05:48] Mike: Yeah, let's say I'd pay. Let's say there's an app you could create like Keith messaging and it's like an app. That's that just does text messaging but it's you have you've come to some arrangement with Apple where like if they use your app which they costs you know a hundred dollars or whatever. Ah, yours come up in red or whatever. So that way there's yes, yeah, okay.
  • [06:00] Keith: Um, yeah, that's a good idea. Apple should do that because they're still moting they still have a moat for Apple ecosystem people. Maybe it hurts it a little bit.
  • [06:07] Mike: So We can agree on that. Right.
  • [06:17] Mike: Well the app could be available on Apple too. Although yeah, the main thing would just be I mean you could see them because I had not considered the new information for me here was that you as an Android user are indistinguishable from somebody. That's a spammer from India using Google voice.
  • [06:18] Keith: Um, not sure.
  • [06:31] Keith: Right? right.
  • [06:34] Mike: Didn't realize that and once you realize that it's like oh they probably should have some annotation to tell women or whoever ah the difference because it's yeah then it makes it's so in other words, it's not that they're screening in the iphone users they're screening out the potential scammers and you look like a scammer.
  • [06:50] Keith: Yeah, yeah, when I try to move off of an app when I meet a new woman online I almost always suggest we use Instagram because my Instagram profile signals plenty of interesting things about me.
  • [06:52] Mike: So makes sense.
  • [07:08] Mike: That makes sense.
  • [07:10] Keith: And it's better then it's better than switching to text messaging because you know eighty whatever percent of the time. The first message back from them is oh you don't have an iphone like for starters, it just irritates the shit out of me that that's like a thing.
  • [07:23] Mike: A.
  • [07:29] Keith: And then also yeah, it is irritating them too and it's I think they shouldn't be irritated by that. But here we are.
  • [07:35] Mike: Um, yeah, so when you and when you switch them to Instagram do you call it? insta.
  • [07:43] Keith: Here's my Insta I don't know what I do I tried to sound more masculine than that. But I don't know. Okay.
  • [07:46] Mike: Time. Okay, so I got another little topic here. Ah so there was a this didn't surprise me but it surprised a frequent listener and sometimes well he a friend of the show who said that? ah. That he was surprised to read a post on Reddit about how the extent to which sex work had been normalized and so this was a person who posted something it was it was it was it was something it was a girl who ah where ah her boyfriend slash fiance I think boyfriend found out or she told him that that he.
  • [08:09] Keith: Did he give it examples. What do you mean.
  • [08:22] Mike: She rather had ah spent some time as a sugar baby and ah he was upset about that and sort of was destabilizing the relationship and so she was asking for advice and and this is true and I wasn't surprised by it but the vast majority of commenters were essentially saying oh well, he's shaming you. For engaging in sex work and that's unacceptable thus being super pro sex work and I think I've noticed this as Well. That like there's some kind with there's some age category among which this stuff has become pretty normalized ah would would you agree with that or is that surprise you as well.
  • [08:44] Keith: Right.
  • [08:57] Keith: Yeah I think well okay for sure, there's been a surge of acceptance of all kinds of sex work. Especially some of the lighter forms like only fans or something like that. Um. But there's also an audience bias here we were talking about this offline the other day in reference to some poll that a a girl had about whether women ah fantasized about men blowing a load on their face and something like half the women said yes and you were like that can't be true.
  • [09:30] Mike: Um, it's strong. Yeah.
  • [09:32] Keith: And yeah, your your theory was that the people responding to that poll are people that follow her and that set of people is not nearly a representative sample and so it may be on subreddits where you know people are talking about sex a lot. Ah, these people are probably sex Positive. They're probably disproportionately woke and so you're you're not getting middle America in your in your sample there.
  • [09:59] Mike: Well if you so if you were dating somebody and determined that she had served as a so sugar baby for someone far older than her for a period of time with and you were not sugar dating. You were just regular dating would that bother you.
  • [10:14] Keith: Um, no, but yeah, yeah, I'm not bothered by that kind of stuff I think I am enlightened but I think most people.
  • [10:17] Mike: Um, so you're positive about that sex work positive.
  • [10:29] Keith: Especially outside the US but even inside the US I think most people just haven't crossed a lot of the bridges that I have yet.
  • [10:34] Mike: That there must be some line that you would draw I mean if she were if she'd been a. Maybe you'd be okay with a stripper would you be okay with an escort would you be okay with someone who actually had ah done. Well I'm not sure what the right verb is walked. The Blade set the right verb.
  • [10:48] Keith: I Don't know what does that mean.
  • [10:51] Mike: Oh the blade is the ah in a in a town. There's often a street that's called the blade which is where ah women who are prostitutes who do it on the street officer exactly but well the the blade is the sort of current term. That's why I wanted. Yeah yeah.
  • [10:56] Keith: Oh okay, the red light district. Ok okay, I'm not hit hip to this lingo I mean I did date I went on a few dates with a with a former porn star and.
  • [11:12] Mike: That's right.
  • [11:16] Keith: Yeah I mean I did I mostly just felt insecure I felt like I mean how are you ever going to like sexually satisfy a porn star right? And then you know she says all the right things like oh you know that's just performative I Really like the way that you fuck me. But.
  • [11:16] Mike: Um, did you ever put the hot dug in the hallway.
  • [11:22] Mike: Um, right? and.
  • [11:28] Mike: Right? But I don't oh you did it. You did get to to make give an effort to satisfy her and it went Okay, okay, okay, right. She's like oh is that what you're packing.
  • [11:34] Keith: You know? Yeah yeah, she said it did as I cried afterwards just getting it just get it.
  • [11:48] Mike: Um, she's like that doesn't really stimulate my a spot or weight. Yeah that the Fornix Ah, okay, so yeah, you So yeah, so your view is it is becoming more more ah normalized. Yeah I've noticed it and it's true that there's a selection bias there. But I also think there's like an age bias and you have.
  • [11:55] Keith: Mm.
  • [12:07] Mike: Ah I mean I think also camming caming and streaming this plays a role here I mean there's just so many people that now stream various stuff online.
  • [12:12] Keith: Well and you know I think some plurality of the social media accounts of young women are now just sort of trying to get followers and the way they do that is they just post you. You know the expression a thirst trap. Yeah, it's just a while I just need to absorb that for a second. Yeah, it's just a vote that you don't know that expression. It's like what I found out, you didn't know what a white claw was It's like such a.
  • [12:33] Mike: Um, no I don't can you explain that.
  • [12:37] Mike: Um, what do you have to absorb.
  • [12:44] Mike: Oh the drink? Yeah yeah.
  • [12:47] Keith: Yeah, it's such a like a common part of my vernacular that. Yeah so ah, a thirs strap is just a photo that someone posts ah usually of themselves scantily clad or in some sort of provocative pose and yeah, generally.
  • [13:01] Mike: Um, this is a woman.
  • [13:07] Keith: Um, and it's meant to attract social media attention likes and so forth.
  • [13:13] Mike: Is there a way that I could post a thirst trap would it would be like ah some sort of ah expensive car behind me or what ah a watch.
  • [13:19] Keith: Um, oh I think it I think it entirely is around your body your yourself. Yeah like posing in front of a G six.
  • [13:29] Mike: Um, okay.
  • [13:36] Keith: Ah, a Gulf stream Six private Jet would not ah be considered a thirst trap I don't think I'm gonna have to consult with the list on this.
  • [13:38] Mike: That doesn't count. Okay, so for example I see these videos on Tiktok that are a woman talking about something relatively banal, but she'll be leaning over as if the cameras her phone is kind of on a table and so she has to lean over and then her breasts will be hanging down seductively and you can just.
  • [13:49] Keith: Um, ah.
  • [13:55] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [13:58] Mike: You can see a lot of them is that a thirst trap.
  • [14:01] Keith: Um, you know there's some confusion around the topic about sort of what's an acceptable amount of thirst trap posting and what's an unacceptable amount and like when you're.
  • [14:11] Mike: He.
  • [14:17] Keith: I'm gonna use this word with no judgment. But like when you're sort of like prostituting yourself out and when you're when you're doing sort of a normal thing like let's say you're on the beach somewhere and you post a picture of yourself at said beach. There are ways to do that where it might not like I guess. The thirst trap nes of a photo comes on like a scale you know so they could be a 10 or it could be a 6 and it sort of depends on context.
  • [14:42] Mike: And the rationale here is just the women want attention or is it to get money I guess.
  • [14:47] Keith: I Think that would not be something that people are willing to quickly concede. But.
  • [14:55] Mike: What what would they say the explanation is they just they just like posting thirst traps. Ok ok so it's a pejorative label.
  • [15:03] Keith: I'm not sure what their excuse would be but people don't want to think that they're vain right? They they erect all these like sort of edifices in their brain and scaffolding to avoid admitting that to themselves are this what Wikipedia says at thirst trap is.
  • [15:14] Mike: Right.
  • [15:18] Keith: But thirsttrap is a type of social media post intended to entice viewers sexually it refers to a viewer's thirst a colloquialism likening sexual frustration to dehydration implying desperation with the afflicted individual being described as thirsty wow Wikipedia is getting. Ah yeah.
  • [15:33] Mike: That's not urban dictionary that's Wikipedia. No no you said Wikipedia but it sounded that the tone was urban dictionary you know.
  • [15:36] Keith: Oh did I say urban dictionary. Okay, yeah, no I know I know I agree thirstrep culture was derived from selfie culture the term thirst trap emerged on Twitter and urban dictionary in 2011 and the photo they have is a shirtless man taking a bathroom selfie. So apparently thirst straps can be.
  • [15:46] Mike: Here we go. Okay.
  • [15:55] Mike: Right? But we all know what's what that really would be okay so you're saying Yeah, there's some yeah, there's some link and that makes sense between this and sex work camming and all these sorts of things like it's just becoming more provocative.
  • [15:56] Keith: Posted by men I think in general you know, 8 out of 10 first wrapps are posted by women.
  • [16:11] Keith: Yeah I mean we sorry I didn't even finish my thesis there. But yeah, the point I was trying to make is yeah like almost all young women are not almost all but some plurality of them have social media accounts that ah you know are. Showing off their physical appearance in a way that I think wasn't really done before and then you know if that's Baseline Then there's this whole you know cone of of spread from there where you know people can get into different things and they're all slowly but surely being normalized.
  • [16:47] Mike: Right? I mean you just ah, eventually Instagram or 1 of these social networks will just be women with those sort of fuck machines kind of revving up all of them just just getting hammered.
  • [16:54] Keith: Um.
  • [16:58] Keith: Um, yeah I don't know where this ends I mean.
  • [17:01] Mike: I Hope it ends there.
  • [17:05] Keith: I Mean yeah, the way that women dress seems to be getting more and more scantily. Yeah I mean I don't think I don't think men have any problems with that. But I don't think the patriarchy is necessarily forcing that.
  • [17:13] Mike: Good. That's good.
  • [17:23] Keith: Um.
  • [17:25] Mike: No I mean I think there probably is just their financial and other incentives that that drive it and then it's a benefit. Um, okay I got 1 other thing. Yeah quickly. So ah, um, in case so I already was pretty disinclined to visit an escort generally. But i.
  • [17:27] Keith: Sure all right? Yeah, let's move on before we get into trouble. Go ahead.
  • [17:43] Mike: For some reason went on Youtube and I searched for interviews with escorts because I was bored and wanted some background noise found a few of them and there was one that really in case, you were considering it and hadn't done it yet might make you reconsider so an escort who was talking about.
  • [17:45] Keith: Ah, ah yeah.
  • [17:59] Mike: How when she was actually a former escort according to her she needed. You know she was doing it to make money so she would have to pay rent utilities probably at a drug habit and so forth the various necessities of life which meant she needed kind of a regular income and that was a problem because she was not always disposed to provide said service. So for example. There is the question of what does she do when she's on her period and she had she said she came up with a reasonable solution for that which is she would just take a sponge and jam it in there kind of deeply so that way it would sort of retain everything I talked to somebody else who was saying oh you can use 1 of those sort of cup products like um.
  • [18:22] Keith: Um.
  • [18:38] Mike: Cups that you can put in there that kind of hold in the the flow so you can have sex her claim was no I mean it's a good question. It's a good question. Her claim was no but then I was yeah oh Lord exactly. So.
  • [18:43] Keith: Neither of those are detectable by a sufficiently sized man. Maybe when once it gets blood soaked. It just feels like a membrane back there.
  • [18:55] Mike: That one was I was sort of like okay that's all right? But then she said look the other problem is and she said I just would constantly because I was having sex with so many different men I would constantly get bacterial infections and yeast infections and she said various things that I need don't need to repeat that describing how how that that wasn't. Particularly ah, a good state of affairs to have going on with her vagina and she said the solution she used was the same she said look it was bad stuff but you could just take a sponge and just sort of push it down in and then that was fine while you were recuperating from it. So that way she could keep working and I thought.
  • [19:19] Keith: Now.
  • [19:31] Mike: That's actually a great point that like you don't if you go you don't have you have so little knowledge about what the well I mean if partly I mean if you meet somebody in a normal dating circumstance. You get some sense of like their hygiene. But.
  • [19:44] Keith: Yeah.
  • [19:47] Mike: Yeah in in this case, you don't have that sense and I thought Wow that's ah, that's a thing that as as ah, as a guy I wouldn't have thought possible I mean of course it's theoretically possible. But.
  • [19:52] Keith: Yeah, it's interesting. All of my sort of mental thought exercises about prostitution always sort of end with well I think it's not compelling to me because I would know that there. Not interested in me at all and that automatically just makes it less compelling but let's say I could somehow get over that hump then you have this issue of your physical health and that I think is just a total nonstarter like I don't want to risk.
  • [20:11] Mike: He.
  • [20:23] Mike: Right.
  • [20:30] Keith: Gonorrheeas are selfless. Ah.
  • [20:31] Mike: Well, this isn't just this is actually like it's setting aside. Yeah, there's like long term longer term physical problems. You could have this is just Wow This person is actually not could have an infection like an active infection going on that just kind of gross.
  • [20:45] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah I mean I think that sort of thing can happen to women who are significantly less sexually active or who have far fewer sexual partners. But.
  • [20:49] Mike: Think Ha That's that's not ah that's not a great situation.
  • [21:01] Mike: Oh of course.
  • [21:03] Keith: When that happens to most women. They just don't make themselves sexually available for a week or 2 or however longs to clear the bacteria or the pru and so but yeah, like if it's your career then you know you you got to take the cortiison shot. Yeah, just like Steph Curry does in his knee to stay on the court right? You you do whatever it takes.
  • [21:06] Mike: Of course, yes right.
  • [21:20] Mike: Right? And I yeah I hadn't thought about that as a sort of downside right? And and I think she mentioned that the same kind of thing can happen in porn so you never know. Yeah.
  • [21:22] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah, they yeah makes sense. Although ah, that porn Star told me that ah they at least. The company that she was working for required weekly Std tests and if you had sex if you had unprotected sex with someone you had to disclose it. Um, like even with your boyfriend or whatever then they were.
  • [21:57] Mike: Huh. Okay.
  • [21:58] Keith: They were like fairly serious about it. Um, but you know of course you know these are not rigorously enforceable and so you can never be sure. But.
  • [22:08] Mike: Well they have I mean they have the the benefit if you want to call it that Well I mean is it look an advantage that ah a porn shoot has is they know they have like ah essentially a log of a set of people you've had sex with and so that way they can trace they can trace a disease and so you actually have a pretty strong incentive to be honest because.
  • [22:20] Keith: Yeah, you could get shamed out of the industry if you lie apparently. So yep, yeah yeah, well I mean they have it on camera so you know.
  • [22:26] Mike: Yeah, if they kind of trace you down right? Yeah for sure and they they might catch you because if they are able to sort of triangulate that you were the source that doesn't look good for you right? Fair point exactly.
  • [22:39] Keith: I know what you've slept with all right, let's move into um, a couple of these Reddit topics. Ah, there's this one about the threesome and there's this one about the guy whose girlfriend wants him to stop using the sex toy and I think they sort of brush on the same topic.
  • [22:48] Mike: A.
  • [22:56] Mike: Um, yes.
  • [22:59] Keith: Which is yeah, how do you know? if you're gay and so I think I'm going to read I'll read them both and then we could we could discuss each of them all right? So let's see all right? So let's let's do the threesome first. So the the girlfriend is 18 He's.
  • [23:09] Mike: Sure.
  • [23:19] Keith: The person writing this is nineteen and the third person and the threesome was another man and he was 25 so he says my girlfriend and I had our first threeome the other night with another guy and I can't stop thinking about a specific moment toward the end of the 3 son. The other guy was fucking my girlfriend in the missionary position. Ah, girlfriend and I came already but the other guy was struggling to get to the point in no return at the time I was sitting behind my girlfriend with my back against the wall holding her position I was facing the other guy and at some point he caught me staring at his dick going in and out as soon as her eyes crossed. He didn't stop looking at me. Awkwardly looked away but when I looked back. He was still focused on me. He came while we were looking at each other I was turned on all over again and I struggled to understand why I still am that being said whenever I think about the other guy's expression when he came I end up with precom in my onies.
  • [24:08] Mike: Whenever he thinks about it. Yeah so I've I've actually had this experience. Ah okay I can't hear my story all right.
  • [24:10] Keith: Okay, hold on yeah, there's just 2 more sentences here I'm not shared any of this with my girlfriend or the other guy I'm attracted to my girlfriend and I love her very much but I don't know where to begin with how I'm feeling what does this experience say about me.
  • [24:25] Mike: So it is different than the the anyway the the experience that I had was ah I think at one of the beaches in San Francisco I was walking down the beach and it's a beach that's known. Yeah, but baker beach known to have ah some gay activity at it and I looked to the right.
  • [24:30] Keith: Um, yeah, how must have been Baker beach. Yeah yeah.
  • [24:43] Mike: And there is up of the sort of up the beach where there's some rocks that protect some areas there and there was a man I could see him and he and he walked out from this is what happened he walked out from behind the stones. He was masturbating he looked at me and then he ejaculate.
  • [24:56] Keith: Ah, yeah.
  • [25:01] Mike: And ah it did I I when I think about it does not give me pre come yeah.
  • [25:06] Keith: Right? Yeah, that's a pretty important distinction between your experience and this gentleman's experience. Ah he asks What does this experience say about me. Ah sure.
  • [25:20] Mike: Probably bisexual I I think it would be um, although okay, there's another I can give another potential interpretation which is that he might be like a Cuck fetish is because it was his girlfriend right.
  • [25:23] Keith: Sure.
  • [25:33] Keith: Um, it was yeah right? yeah and in a pretty dominant way because he was you know staring at him.
  • [25:37] Mike: So maybe what turned him on was watching this other guy basically inseminate his girlfriend while looking at him right.
  • [25:51] Keith: I Yeah I Guess that's possibility.
  • [25:53] Mike: You like look what I'm doing dear I Guess if I were me think about that. Yeah I actually am a little more interested in the question of whether it would it would um, turn me on more to if to. Okay, so if I was the the guy that. The guy that's ejaculating in this case would I want to look at the other guy while I did it with that term me it might that might turn me on right because right? because it's um, yeah exactly I'd be like look what I'm doing probably not I'd probably still rather look at the woman. But yeah, there's some possibility there.
  • [26:15] Keith: Because you're humiliating him? Yeah, yeah, yeah, ah right? Okay, that's a.
  • [26:25] Mike: So it could just be a submission thing I think the comet my recollection. Yeah, my my recollection is the commenters on this. We're basically saying yay This just means you're by and it's of course different from the typical um Mmf story where the guy just feels shame and gross after an Mm f threesome.
  • [26:29] Keith: But is an an angle I had not considered.
  • [26:44] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah I mean these comments are sometimes gay shit is sexy. That's what it means we're all too focused on labeling and categorizing sexual ah Sexualities immo. It's a useful practice to help push for civil rights andju and I'm not going to keep reading this one.
  • [26:44] Mike: That's a more common story.
  • [26:49] Mike: Is it.
  • [26:59] Mike: Yeah, have you ever experienced gay stuff that was sexy between 2 men now.
  • [27:02] Keith: Yeah, yeah, it's I don't not that I can remember not that I can remember I think look I Yeah I agree that like you know, everything's sort of on a spectrum and I don't think it's a linear spectrum I think it's multidimensional I Just think I'm. Basically as hetero as it gets like I Just don't have any curiosity I don't ever feel Arousal. Um.
  • [27:27] Mike: Well I think there's I think you can I think you can come up with there I think it does we've discussed this before but I think it does confuse the brain if you go to like say the trans the trans part of Chatterbait so you have a person that looks female that has a penis and then you're like hi. But I think most you know you're yes.
  • [27:39] Keith: Yeah, but that's just short circuitcuiting various things in my brain. It's like not I mean it would be. It would be awesome to be into men you know I'd live 3 blocks from the Castro.
  • [27:45] Mike: It is um.
  • [27:52] Mike: Here.
  • [27:53] Keith: Which is you know, maybe the gayest neighborhood in the world and 1 ah you know in San Francisco one of the gayest cities in the world in.
  • [27:58] Mike: Um, what? what do you think you would do if you woke up gay like it's you know tomorrow You think you would just go immediately over there and just ah.
  • [28:04] Keith: I guess yeah, just go to a bar I mean even when I go to castro bars with friends and I've been propositioned many times I've told you the story about the guy who like came over to introduce himself to me and he had like a $20 bill in between his fingers and said like hey do you want to. Come to the restroom.
  • [28:23] Mike: What did he want to have I remember this right I don't know what he you didn't find out what he wanted to have happen interesting. It would have been what was the amount he would have needed to offer.
  • [28:27] Keith: Um, ah he wanted to blow me. You wanted to blow me. Yeah I mean again, we get to the like there's the emotional and sort of mental.
  • [28:40] Mike: 5000
  • [28:47] Keith: Ah, effects of having a sexual experience. You don't want to have and then there's the like health risk. Let's so let's say I could like completely remove the health risk like you know that he doesn't have any mouth orres or herpes or whatever it may be and and I'm positive of it. You know I'm not concerned about.
  • [28:52] Mike: No.
  • [28:59] Mike: Right.
  • [29:05] Keith: Any sickness or std or disease or infection. Ah thousand bucks I think a thousand yeah and people would say like oh that's so low. But I mean it's not like it's going to emotionally traumatize me.
  • [29:14] Mike: Um, I mean the a thousand. Ok I think that um, um.
  • [29:23] Mike: It's somewhat likely it's somewhat likely that if you remove that caudice seal about health because that's thing you would use it. It's somewhat likely that I'd be willing to pay someone $1000 to do that to you. That's a pretty low enough.
  • [29:23] Keith: So going to turn me gay.
  • [29:33] Keith: Just just to see if it does mess me up. Emotionally.
  • [29:37] Mike: No, just to see it I mean just because it would just be funny. Yeah I would you know I could get him to I could get him to like write baby could interview him. Yeah look I ble that'd be funny too. He's like look man I was sucking on that thing for 20 minutes but you see I think that the the problem is that.
  • [29:45] Keith: Um, what if I couldn't get aroused.
  • [29:53] Keith: It has to be time boxed? Yeah yeah, well I mean there's some amount of health that there's there's some amount of money that you know I would be willing to de prioritize the health thing.
  • [29:57] Mike: Yeah, the health the health requirement I think could always be used to get you out of it. So it's tricky. Yeah.
  • [30:09] Mike: Oh I know but then it would probably get extreme right? That's the problem. Yeah yeah, and I mean they write and it would the whole thing would be probably lame because you write you would be hard to get aroused etc. So yeah, that's true.
  • [30:11] Keith: But it's a lot more than a thousand right? You know where it's like 2 powers of 10 at least.
  • [30:22] Keith: Yeah, right? Yeah, would just yeah, all right? all right? Let me read the second word here. Ah my girlfriend 22 wants me 25 male to stop using my sex story I remember this one up the pre giggling a few weeks ago. Ask comfort friend if she was interested in making me.
  • [30:31] Mike: H.
  • [30:40] Keith: Like it does She was shocked and so what turned up since she said she was willing to do it but her face was saying the opposite I didn't want to put her in an uncomfortable situation. So I said it was a silly sex thing. No Big Deal. We didn't have to do it. My girlfriend agreed that it was silly ouch that hurt my feelings and said she would prefer staying away from my butthole again. Ouch. Disappointed not going to lie but I respected her decision and moved on I think this is a perfectly reasonable thing of his girlfriend.
  • [31:03] Mike: Yeah, it's I mean it staying away from her butthole makes his butthole makes sense and then like she probably realizes that this is not yeah this is not something she'll want to see happen I can tell where this is going. Yeah.
  • [31:08] Keith: Yeah.
  • [31:14] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, we've been through this before like after you peg your boyfriend. It's hard for a lot of women to sort of see them the same Way. It's sort of like a reversal of the. Proper state of Affairs and but she may not even be thinking about that.
  • [31:32] Mike: Um I think it could be it depends Obviously I think the hardest the most the the most challenging for the girlfriend to cope with and and and so in some cases it might be great ah would be him enjoying it.
  • [31:48] Mike: Right? I mean if he if he said hey we tried it I didn't really like that that much she'd probably be like okay and then that would that would sort of close the that chapter. But if yeah if he's like if he's just if yeah I mean like it the well the things you would see in a porn or whatever I mean if she's back there grinding and he's just nutting all over the I'm imagining. They're a dogggy style by the way and he's just nutting all over the bedspre.
  • [31:50] Keith: Yeah, yeah, put it to bed so to speak.
  • [32:06] Keith: Right? Okay, well this is good for foreshadowing. Yeah, let it let it let me continue since that conversation I've been butt fucking myself at least twice a week with the Dildo I bought my Orgas have been insane None of this was done in secret.
  • [32:08] Mike: That it's gonna be. She's like okay, it really strongly implies. He's gay. Yeah, go ahead.
  • [32:17] Mike: Well done.
  • [32:24] Keith: Girlfriend knew what I was doing and as long as I never did it in front of her. She said she was cool with it. However, yesterday she asked me to stop using the dildo because it made her feel insecure. She mentioned a few times when she overheard me moaning in the bathroom. She said it was kind of weird for a guy to get that much pleasure out of putting things in his ass.
  • [32:26] Mike: Um, why did he tell her.
  • [32:35] Mike: Oh My lord. Okay.
  • [32:42] Keith: Didn't want this situation to set the tone for her uncoming birthday which is days away so he promised to stop using the dildo for the time being until we're both prepared to discuss it again. Please advise to sacrifice something that brings me great pleasure in order to protect my girlfriend from feeling inadequate or is there another compromise that can satisfy both of us.
  • [32:58] Mike: I Mean this shit must be so frustrating to read for a guy who has trouble getting a girlfriend I mean it's just like so you know and the guy's doing it. It is.
  • [33:03] Keith: Right? right? like this girl's willing to tolerate this bullshit from this guy right? like he's his. He's gay or like you know at best Buy he's as fucking himself.
  • [33:15] Mike: Well.
  • [33:18] Keith: In full like basically what they the door Cracked so she could like listen to and do it.
  • [33:19] Mike: Right? If he did it in private and did not tell her about it then I don't really have a complaint and I don't think it means I don't think it means he's he's gay or by necessarily because he could yeah it does bring up the question.
  • [33:29] Keith: Um, it doesn't it doesn't mean he's gay it. Ah it it brings up the question though begs the question.
  • [33:37] Mike: But the real thing here is what's what oh the real The most concerning piece is why is he exactly? Why is he? why is he doing it in such a way that she's definitely going to overhear and telling her about it and yeah I mean it's just I mean this is we've just.
  • [33:44] Keith: Right. I Just love this.. He's like like moaning an ecstasy of the baroom. She like oh come on again.
  • [33:58] Mike: Um, is it I mean but isn't there like a natural I mean I think we've discussed before the question of like beating off in such a way that you're significant other knows you're doing that like this is not that common either just in general I mean it's something that usually you do privately and this is probably why it's It's just strange to overhear someone. In another room masturbating are more or anyone.
  • [34:15] Keith: Yeah, hearing your sexual partner experience sexual pleasure without you is something is something that some people can handle but it's just not just generally unless there's like some you know. Superlative reason for doing so you should do it privately.
  • [34:34] Mike: I but I don't think that it's I don't think it's specific to sexual partner I think it's just the hearing somebody in real life doing that. Without it being your way without being doing it with them is always problematic I mean typically right when you hear a neighbor doing it. Um, yeah I remember ah when we visited Iceland I might have told you this we stayed on an airbnb and the first night we were really tired jet lagged and um.
  • [34:50] Keith: Agreed.
  • [35:03] Keith: Um, you.
  • [35:06] Mike: Put my head to the pillow and I could hear and you imagine like an iceland these are like vikings and I heard this guy just pounding his girlfriend and her whimpering and I was thinking just like and I did not like I just imagining like a bald viking Maybe a beer just just pounding away and I did not like that it was kind of I mean.
  • [35:09] Keith: Right? right.
  • [35:18] Keith: Are I yeah.
  • [35:25] Mike: If I was beating off it would be okay but I yeah we just wanted to go to sleep? Yeah, no well it was okay, it was okay I got over it. But um, yeah, um.
  • [35:27] Keith: Yeah, it's not not a good intro to rikjavik.
  • [35:38] Mike: Yeah, so I don't I think that. Ah yeah, this sounds this frankly is so weird. It sounds a little made up but man like yeah, the people who have difficulty getting girlfriends are like what like ah what? So you yeah you you have so much access to pussy that you're willing to do this must be a Chad.
  • [35:49] Keith: Right? Yeah, yeah, feel bad for that I dont yeah I don't know how that situation's going to resolve itself I didn't even read the suggestions people have but none of them are going to be good. All right here's another one.
  • [36:02] Mike: Yeah.
  • [36:07] Keith: I Tried anal with my husband and Wow Okay guys. So my husband has been asking to trianal. He only asked once or twice and every time I said no, he would always respect me and never ever push it just wanting to throw that out there. So no one thinks he was being pushy. That's sort of in the category of I think the lady doth protests too much there speaking.
  • [36:08] Mike: Yes.
  • [36:25] Mike: Well, he was asking So there's some amount. Yeah, there's some amount of pushing us he could there. There's good pushiness and bad pushing us right? I mean.
  • [36:27] Keith: Almost a little bit too clear about it. Yeah, but yeah, anyway, that's not the point of this right? Okay, anyway, back to the story. So the other night we were getting freaky. Not really just doing doggy my favorite position and then all of a sudden something came over me and I said let's do anal all I have to say is fucking. Wow. What have I been missing this entire time and then there's like 20 exclamation points. Obviously the first few penetrations were um, different and maybe a little painful but it got way better once I relaxed oh my god it was magical more exclamation points. Okay, anyway now I'm like horny all the time and it's all I think about is this normal. By the way I'm 28 and my husband is 29 so it's not like I'm young and inexperienced does this happen to anyone else. Thanks guys.
  • [37:13] Mike: I Can tell you that I once was talking to ah ah the the male member of a couple they were on having in an argument some sort of dispute between them and his claim was that the thing that his that his girlfriend at the time told him.
  • [37:23] Keith: Ah.
  • [37:31] Mike: That the thing that was um, keeping her kind of in the relationship was the memory of him analyzing her the other night so I mean it can be obviously a profound experience for someone I think it must be kind of a domination experience as opposed to a physical thing. Yeah.
  • [37:44] Keith: I Guess that's a exactly where I was going. They feel excessively submissive.
  • [37:50] Mike: I I would yeah yeah and I would note here that there's a couple of interesting interesting things that I think point further in that direction. It was spur of the moment which means ah I don't the probably not the appropriate type or amount of lube.
  • [38:04] Keith: I I thought yeah I also thought about we've spent tons of time on this podcast talking about preparing yourself for anal sex when definitionally it could not have been done here. No.
  • [38:14] Mike: That's right, there was certainly no enema. There was right and but she might that maybe that turned her on because it's just so like filthy so to speak and ah and then also she said the first few pene. What would she say the first few thrusts.
  • [38:23] Keith: Tude m.
  • [38:30] Keith: The first few penetrations were different and maybe a little painful. Yeah, perhaps yeah yeah, her vocab is not particularly impressive.
  • [38:31] Mike: Word did she use penetrations. Okay so that implies he was so implies he was putting it in and then taking it completely out. She might have just met thrusts. Um, ah I do like the idea of him. And of going in and out completely a few times at the beginning. Um, but that implies that there's some amount of um discomfort she's liking that part So I'm guessing I don't know if if if there was any clarification that came here but that she she was she actually enjoyed the ah the burn.
  • [38:51] Keith: Now.
  • [38:57] Keith: Right.
  • [39:08] Mike: This is someone who likes eating surracha you know because of the.
  • [39:08] Keith: Um, yeah I mean it's just interesting these threads where I think Ockham's razor is.
  • [39:24] Keith: Yeah, she's enjoying the dominance and the and the pain aspects of it because it's because it's different.
  • [39:34] Mike: Um I don't think it's just that it's different I think that that's I think this is like 1 of the central Ace this is a central like challenge that women sometimes have around sex is that they.
  • [39:44] Mike: The other supposed to have consent and control in the situation but actually there's something very appealing I Just like for men. It's the opposite but the yeah, there's something appealing.
  • [39:50] Keith: No I agree I Just mean it's I agree I Just think it's probably different than her normal engagements with her husband and so this like the thing that she likes here is that it was more painful and more ah submissive.
  • [39:56] Mike: Yeah, yeah.
  • [40:07] Mike: Yeah, yeah, and I mean I can I'm sure that can be confusing but on the other hand I can under I mean it makes sense in the sense that um, there is a whole sort of spectrum of behaviors as a man you have in the bedroom or met many men have in the bedroom I Certainly do that are not. Every day. Yeah there there there are things you wouldn't want to you wouldn't want to say I mean except on like this podcast most people wouldn't want us to run talking about them. Guy says hey you know I Just love to you know, do some spanking or ah, you know I like to hear a girl squeal or what you know?? Whatever the thing is.
  • [40:41] Keith: M.
  • [40:44] Mike: Aggressive dominant I Don't do you do you have and a go to aggressive dominant Behavior Yeah, like ah you know you take your belt off and do some beating some slaps hair pulling dirty talk.
  • [40:47] Keith: A go to.
  • [40:55] Keith: Why I would be in the middle. Why would I have my belt on in the middle of sight I don't think I do fine I don't wear belts though. Remember we've we've had that discussion too.
  • [41:03] Mike: Well you you go over to your pants and take it out of the pants. Maybe you That's true wait you ah you take off your wizard hat and pull out your wand. That's that one.
  • [41:16] Keith: Ah I mean this is a little bit of a dots Equatur but it's related I mean I think part of my I think my hangup on blowjubs is like a massive turnoff for this reason, right? like it's yeah, like they want to be.
  • [41:29] Mike: Um, to girls? Yeah yeah.
  • [41:35] Keith: A little bit submissive. Ah and this like notion that I'm like well I think like forcing you into a submissive position is sort of a paradox is they're like ok fine but like get over it right.
  • [41:49] Mike: Well, yeah I mean there I mean in my ah moderate experience with women like I feel confident saying that there is a significant set of women maybe half of women who if they masturbated 5 times. Sorry 10 times 5 of them without a dick in their mouth and 5 of them with a dick in their mouth. The 5 with the dick in their mouth. Their orgasm would be materially stronger because they're yeah they're being theying. They're being submissive maybe half of them wouldn't you know there'd be other reasons but but it's a substantial.
  • [42:05] Keith: Um, yeah, yes.
  • [42:19] Keith: Um, yeah, all right? Yeah no ah agree I mean we've talked about this so much we don't We don't have to get into them to it now. Are you ready to move on all right? Ah yeah.
  • [42:20] Mike: They tend to it's I believe that they're enjoying it which makes sense. Yeah sure wait I can I see 1 thing quickly just have you attempted using that as a crutch to to get over that. Having a woman masturbate with your dick in her mount.
  • [42:42] Keith: Ah, now that's a good idea I think it is too. Yeah, no I understand no I get it? yeah.
  • [42:44] Mike: Yeah I think it is you don't have to have it there the entire time but maybe as she's you know within once you had to say 2 minutes before the critical juncture amps it up a little and you might be like ha and and you might notice that yes she might be like oh this is great.
  • [43:00] Keith: No I understand the suggestion. Yeah maybe I'll run that by the powers that be.
  • [43:06] Mike: If you if if that doesn't work for you. Yeah, if that doesn't work for you could you could have ah let's say that you were going to have sex with a girl you could send me a text. It's a green text but I'll accept it and I'll come over it. But my dick in her mouth. But.
  • [43:17] Keith: Ah, there we go? yeah that one's less less than Ty sick for me now this versus it says why is it a red flag to care about a potential partner's body count. You must have you? This is one of your favorite topics. All right.
  • [43:22] Mike: That's not compelling all right.
  • [43:31] Mike: Um.
  • [43:35] Keith: Someone eighteen year old female that views sex as something intimate and only to do with the one that you love and want to spend the rest of your life with I value my body count this is coming from an 18 year old I care about how my partner thinks about sex and if he slept around before dating me. It would be a deal breaker slept around. She's 18 I don't have any double standards I myself as a virgin ah I myself was also a virgin and never even had kissed before him because of choice I really value these things him 20 year old male on the other hand had 2 previous girlfriends and things didn't work out. Well.
  • [44:01] Mike: Yeah, at some point I hope. Ah.
  • [44:14] Keith: That doesn't bother me oh things didn't I think his previous relationships didn't work out well that doesn't bother me. We're planning on marrying in the next three years we're one year and six months dating now. No I'm not religious and I wasn't raised as one. Why is this so demonized I don't think anyone is more valuable or less valuable based on their body count. Yes, she does.
  • [44:20] Mike: Her.
  • [44:33] Keith: It's just the way they chose to live their life and I'm friends with a lot of people that partake in the hookup culture and I don't view them as less valuable than me I just care about body count when it comes to who I'm dating with okay so she does value people paid that anyway setting aside the paradoxes in her writing. Ah.
  • [44:46] Mike: Will it? Okay, let me I Okay so there's a ah, there's a tick to video I'm sorry listeners that I'm still addicted to tick to? yeah thank you.
  • [44:51] Keith: What do you think of this. Yeah, that's first time Tiktok came up today if you had making it 45 minutes for that came up, you're a winner.
  • [45:02] Mike: Yeah, Ah so um, it was about this topic and it was somebody explaining why why? this it was a way it was explained in a way that makes sense to me. So Essentially it's not okay for me I think there's just like an element of it maybe bothersome that. So many men have had sex with you. Ah. Some sort of basic thing of like that's just a lot of penises that you've interacted with but ah this they made an argument that I thought was better than that which was that given that the way human sexuality typically works is men are kind of willing to have sex with most women. Ah.
  • [45:32] Keith: Then.
  • [45:40] Keith: Um, this is.
  • [45:41] Mike: Yeah, so if even if a relatively unattractive woman is in a bar and willing she's willing and ready to have sex with a guy most guys will then say okay accepting maybe guys that are married and think it's a trap or whatever. Um, and women are much more selective. Okay so women are the sort of selective one? Well what does that say it says that.
  • [45:50] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [45:58] Mike: But you can directly from that derive the body count issue if a man has a high body count. Well it means that a lot of women selected him so then the immediate question is oh what's so awesome about this guy that women keep saying yes to him and and it probably is something because it it means that he sort of played the video game repeatedly in 1
  • [46:11] Keith: Um.
  • [46:16] Mike: And unfortunately for women the opposite would hold true. Why is this woman so unselective right? She's saying yes to a lot of guys and so then let's say that your if your guy 3 if you're guy 1 if you your guy 3 if your guy 51 if you guy 201 for a woman it means that something different right? If you're guy number 3 it means wow like. She really? Ah, you had you had to be special in some way if you got a hundred and something well probably not and so just that I think can help understand why guys would care about this. They just immediately are like oh well, this relationship's not going to last I'm not very special, etc, etc. What do you think about that.
  • [46:38] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [46:52] Keith: Wow Yeah, this is a this would be a very controversial take but it's something like yeah, the higher, the body count on the woman. The ah less sexual currencies she has and the higher the body count on the man. More sexual Currency. He has yeah.
  • [47:09] Mike: Yeah, it derives directly from the so the relative selectivity of the genders right? Um I mean you don't feel that way at all like because you you sort of have said on the podcast many times that you don't really care about this and you've convinced me that you don't care about it in terms of like physical health.
  • [47:21] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [47:25] Mike: Outside of Std tests. So like that that you're not worried that like oh she's seen a lot of guy's penises. You don't care about that. But this one I think maybe you would care about like you're not as special or maybe you have such a strong ego that you feel like that.
  • [47:26] Keith: Bright.
  • [47:32] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [47:36] Keith: Ah I think that like I think everything else being equal. Ah I would prefer them to have fewer partners and if somebody has a bunch of partners then it requires more vetting but it. The vetting is like. Are you a reasonable person like you know why the way that like in my experience the way that women get high body counts is they'll like go through some sort of like phase and you know maybe a few years where they're just saying oh fuck it I don't feel like.
  • [47:56] Mike: And.
  • [48:13] Keith: Don't feel like being in a relationship or I'm just not in a place where maybe somebody wants to be in a relationship with me anyway or you know, whatever it may be and they're a woman and if they like sex then it's you know obviously basically infinitely available to them and so. Sometimes they can you know ring the Bell a bunch of times during that during that period. Um, and in that circumstance. Yeah I Think that's totally fine I've had periods like that myself. Ah.
  • [48:34] Mike: Her.
  • [48:41] Mike: Yeah, except that is unusual for a man right? because for a man it's more difficult but okay, like you having you having periods like that is like is is like saying hey you know I was lifting at the gym a lot and I got to the point where I could lift 500 you know, whatever three hundred and fifty pounds of the bench pressed.
  • [48:48] Keith: No yeah, no I understand right right? Airpoint fair point I understand you're right in the context of this conversation me saying that I've also done that is actually not helpful to my argument. It's on Yeah I agree.
  • [49:03] Mike: It's yeah, it's sort of the opposite. It's like you're saying look how awesome I was or am yeah.
  • [49:07] Keith: I agree. Ah yeah, it's more that like yeah I don't begrudge scenarios where people are having lots of casual sex. The concern would be something around. Think we discussed this last episode but maybe we were discussing it offline. The concern is that it's somebody that is going on. You know, a bunch of first second and third dates and they're having sex with these people but then they're getting rejected for some reason and yeah, that is not great. And it's not great. It is nothing to do with me like thinking their vagina is stretched out or something. It's that it's an indicator that they're uncompellling to a large swath of men for some reason and I don't yet know what that reason is, but yeah.
  • [49:48] Mike: A.
  • [50:00] Mike: So you care more so this is interesting because it reminds me of another ticktok video I saw about social proof because it sounds this actually sounds like a somewhat female I don't want to I'm not trying to I'm actually not trying to mock you it but a more like the way the way a woman would be more likely to parse this situation. Um.
  • [50:16] Keith: Ah.
  • [50:17] Mike: In the sense that ah yeah, this this this video was arguing that women. It was something I forget there were there was some kind of a study or whatever an experiment that was done with ah with whether women would go out with a particular guy or how they would rate a particular guy and. Their ratings vastly changed if they found out their friends thought he was cute does that make sense. So So so essentially yeah, they so something like if it's a failede of 1 to 10 They might all say oh you know they might in general the average is 4 or something for guys are 3 typically women wait men kind of low lower women's ratings a meant cluster toward the low end.
  • [50:39] Keith: Wow.
  • [50:47] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
  • [50:55] Mike: Um, which is a typical finding but ah yeah, as soon as they. But if you included the information. Oh well, your friends thought he was a 7 it all goes up now. Maybe men would do that too. But ah I think women are more men men might do that with women's ratings and that's essentially what you're saying is that like it's ah it's a negative social proof that if. Men are having sex once twice 3 times with this woman and then breaking up repeatedly that that means there's something wrong and I actually don't think that's what this is about I think this is about ah men relying on the woman to be selective of them to show that they really like the woman really likes them the man and see this is what I think I think that you. You you have a high enough opinion of yourself that you think well of course she likes me right I think that's I I'm not I'm not again actually not mocking you I think that's actually your experience is that women typically do like you emotionally personally and so that's not actually the issue you're more worried there's something wrong with her. But I think typically the problem here is that men men will think.
  • [51:39] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [51:49] Keith: Ah, it's like a privileged position I have.
  • [51:52] Mike: I Think so so I think the typical male experience would be like oh she has a high body count therefore I cannot trust her liking me. She doesn't really like me. She's just ah, it makes them insecure and then question that.
  • [51:59] Keith: Yeah, yeah, I Actually yeah I was speaking with a friend this morning about this I I never have the concern that somebody doesn't like me or or I mean I've I've been on dates where the.
  • [52:10] Mike: Um, yeah.
  • [52:17] Keith: Person doesn't like me they're infrequent but they happen but I never ah feel badly about it I'm always like well okay they have there. They have bad taste then right? Yeah I don't I don't get my feelings hurt by it.
  • [52:25] Mike: Yeah, there was some personality mismatch or yeah I made sense. Yeah, okay, well maybe you just you you guys just disagree on some important issue like maybe who knows sure it can happen. Okay, sure well you wouldn't have the view unless you believed you were right about it.
  • [52:34] Keith: You write importantly, in a way that like I'm certain I'm right about? Or yeah.
  • [52:45] Mike: Whatever the thing is so um, okay so yeah, yeah, that so that maybe you're not the best audience for that. But I thought it was an interesting um, kind of rationale for the body count mattering And yeah I mean it. It's it. Ah.
  • [52:46] Keith: That's right, That's right.
  • [52:56] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [53:03] Mike: Yeah I mean like it. It makes it like like the the privileges that you have sex infinitely available the downside from getting having that privilege is then if you say yes to it. You. It's like you know the privilege we have living in a modern industrialized society is we have a limited access to food in spite of politicians telling us. There's you know half the country's hungry which is not true. But the downside is we can get. You can get obese easily. You know there's always a downside and so there's no way for women to have their cake and eat it too like um, yeah now if you were a very unattractive woman and you had a high body count. Actually that's true if you were if I met a woman who's really unattractive and she had a high body count I'd be like I would immediately think well she must be incredibly good at sex.
  • [53:24] Keith: Right.
  • [53:40] Keith: Yes, that would.
  • [53:41] Mike: Right? That's exactly what I would think I like if let's say she was obese or just unattractive in some way I'd be like oh my lord like I'm not sure I would want want to do it but I would think okay I would be I would actually be I'd be like props to you? Yeah, then she is so it's not the act of being female like I would think of her like a man then I'd like oh like.
  • [53:50] Keith: Yeah, there must be some reason for this? yeah.
  • [53:59] Mike: You You do something right? yeah.
  • [54:00] Keith: Ah, right? yeah like what's the thing that's causing this anomalous behavior.
  • [54:06] Mike: Right? So it's anti if I don't think it's Necessari necessarily Antiwomen I think it's much more like hey you know? yeah and if if a guy that was like if yeah, if um, if I find out that Leonardo Cacaprio has a body count of 200 that actually doesn't impress me at all because I know his status is such that that's easy. In fact, I wonder what his body count is what would you guess.
  • [54:24] Keith: Dicapos. It's tricky because ah I don't know how you know there's a lot of people who are sort of serial monogamists right? like if he.
  • [54:24] Mike: Yeah, either gets in the thousands.
  • [54:36] Mike: Yeah.
  • [54:39] Keith: Has been in a lot of like nine month relationships and it's not going to be that high. But if he well he could be at a lot of nine months relationship and then still be philandering on the side. But yeah I mean if he is single on average for using the same number. Let's say nine months a year.
  • [54:44] Mike: That's true.
  • [54:51] Mike: Chore.
  • [54:58] Keith: Man It could be so high.
  • [54:59] Mike: He could be like an ethical non-monogamous, but he would need a spreadsheet right? It's like he he could have a woman. He's dating. He says we're ethically non monogaous. She says you have to tell me and he's like there's just there's just so much data I will tell you honey but you're going to need.
  • [55:04] Keith: Um, he would.
  • [55:16] Mike: Like do you have a do you have Google cloud access because there's a lot of data I have to share right? I I yes I pay specially for this plan. Yeah, but would but sir so you you're not sure, but you're you I mean it's pretty yeah.
  • [55:18] Keith: Right? I just had to I just had to expand to the two terabyte plan
  • [55:29] Keith: Well let's say I mean let's let's just do some back in the envelope calculations here like let's say he did you know 2 or 3 women a week for forty weeks a year you know that's that's one hundred a year and how old is he 45 you know, let's say you started when he was 15
  • [55:44] Mike: Yeah, yeah.
  • [55:48] Keith: So he's got 30 years of a hundred a year
  • [55:50] Mike: So it could be 3000 but but we I think we will both have to agree on the following that the body count champions of the world are all women right? It has to be because like a yeah well I guess gay men.
  • [56:02] Keith: Um, ah it's probably prostitutes. Yes.
  • [56:09] Mike: That is interesting I wonder who would do better gay men or like man if you go to like the berkeley steamworks did you know so Keith they had it. You know? yeah go ahead? Yes, oh yeah, they can have several a day. Yes.
  • [56:10] Keith: Now you could know because I know but prostitutes can like like that like the best prostitutes can have like basically a secretary lining it up for them right? right. That's that's hard for a right? There's no refractory.
  • [56:27] Mike: Oh that's true, The woman the woman has the advantage of the vagina because the man that's right, the man exactly I was going to say that I do you know what? the Berkeley steamworks is you can imagine probably it is.
  • [56:37] Keith: Um, ah I is there is is that a bathhouse.
  • [56:43] Mike: It is and it it was one of the few that stayed open during Covid you've been there. It's gay only yeah, it's gay. It's like ah yeah, the one who couldn't smell.
  • [56:45] Keith: I I might have been there is it gay only well is it gay only? Okay I haven't I've been to I went on a few dates with this hippie from Berkeley and she took me to like a yeah, that's the one there was a ah. It was that a ah it was like a spa we had like our own private sauna and hot tub or something. Yes, yeah, there was like a wink wink not nod when we when we went in.
  • [57:05] Mike: Now that's different I know what you're talking about that also has like a sexual connotation. But it's different. This is just be pure gay experience. Yeah, that's like a Jacusi semen filled a hot tub place right? Yeah gross.
  • [57:18] Keith: Yeah I felt a little uncomfortable thought there's just no way there's too much water exactly that's that's exactly my thought process.
  • [57:23] Mike: They can't drain them I mean there's too much water involved. Yeah I just got to filter it? Um, but I was going to say so I wanted to get the um and I know you've how many covered boosters have you had. It's a lot of vaccine so I wanted to get my third I'm not quite at your level. But I am pro.
  • [57:34] Keith: I had my sixth vaccine last weekend.
  • [57:43] Mike: Vaccine I'm not I I did get the flu shot I'm not some weird anti-vaxer at all it just I just haven't done it so I was trying to find it and of course this new one I think it's called bivalent came out and you you obviously have some hookup you probably scheduled it but I was less on the ball about it and the only place I could get one was that the steamworks.
  • [57:50] Keith: A.
  • [57:58] Keith: Well.
  • [58:00] Mike: And I could I I didn't do it I thought about I thought Wow and I but the thing is I was like well will I have to that wasn't that wasn't my concern I mean I can tolerate or I doesn't like gay porn and such as about although in person it might it was more I thought oh I might have to.
  • [58:04] Keith: You could have experienced hearing the moaning noises from the room bag store while you got your vaccine.
  • [58:20] Mike: Pretend I'm gay or something like I wasn't sure it was that I didn't want to I didn't want to somehow disrespect them. Basically.
  • [58:23] Keith: Oh I see yeah when I was trying to sign up for an appointment all the Walgreens at the closest appointment was like three or four weeks out so I went ah I ended up going to this place in Hunter's point actually.
  • [58:31] Mike: Exactly.
  • [58:37] Mike: That's interesting. So the huntter's point is the probably the least the most disadvantaged part of San Francisco other than one of the inner city places called the tenderloin is that what they call loan low income. So that's it. That's it. Yeah, so that suggests there's some maybe they.
  • [58:41] Keith: Yeah, yeah, they call it low income. Yeah.
  • [58:51] Mike: Hopefully it's because they're just sending more vaccines there. But unfortunately it's probably because there's some disinformation preventing those folks from getting the vaccine. Yeah unfortunate, um anyway, ah so people can get it at apparently you can if you want the Covid vaccine you can look at a bathhouse. But maybe I should have.
  • [58:58] Keith: That's unfortunately what it is.
  • [59:08] Mike: For science gone and done that I Just yeah maybe I was afraid I would maybe I was afraid I would go gay I didn't know it was a thing of I thought because you you can get a membership I don't think so you could you can need to get a member. You can get a membership and I was like well I don't know if I go if they'll say you have to be a member.
  • [59:09] Keith: Yeah, you could have reported back.
  • [59:17] Keith: Um I don't think it's contagious Mike.
  • [59:25] Mike: And then it's like well and it's not expensive. It's like five or ten dollars and I was like but then I'll be on their list as a member and then I'm gonna get like these weird let mails you know, like hey you know we're having you know disco night at the bathhouse. It's like anyway.
  • [59:31] Keith: Right? yeah. Right.
  • [59:41] Mike: So I didn't do that I I still haven't made me I still could I have still have not actually set up an appointment My shoulder hurts from the flu shot. So I've been giving it time to recuper it. Yeah.
  • [59:46] Keith: This would be your third booster. Not your third vaccine right.
  • [59:51] Mike: Third vaccine. No wait. You're right I've had this would be the fourth shot you right? I had wait know is that right.
  • [59:56] Keith: Right? I think you've had the original 2 and I think you've had 2 boosters but I'm not sure. ok ok ok I remember yeah right right? right.
  • [01:00:05] Mike: no no no I certainly haven't had 2 boosters I think I had 1 booster and it and made me really sick and I was ah unhappy about that. That's right? Okay, yeah, that's that's what's weird is you've've I've I've had 1 booster and you've had 4 which is.
  • [01:00:12] Keith: Yeah I've had the original 2 and 4 boosters now.
  • [01:00:21] Keith: Um I have not yeah, might my um opinion is that the immunity weighs over time and so I get 1 about every six months
  • [01:00:21] Mike: Really aggressive but you've not actually contracted the illness so it's worked so far right? so.
  • [01:00:34] Mike: Oh I think it I think there's no question I mean there's I don't think that's an opinion I think that's a scientific fact that it wanes over time. So well I mean I think immunity ah always wanes some amount. So yeah, that would be hard to argue against and particularly with the coronaviruses.
  • [01:00:37] Keith: Well I'm trying not to piss off any listener but it's a difficult needle to thread when you're talking about the vaccine. Yeah yeah, you'd be surprised. Yeah.
  • [01:00:51] Mike: But ah, yeah, no I just haven't and I didn't want to do those steamworks. Anyhow.
  • [01:00:57] Keith: All right? Well, it's been an hour so I'm going to wrap it. Ah, that's it for episode 89 of your mileage may vary find us on Twitter at y mm the pod or send us an email at ymmvpodgmail.com if you have questions, please let us know if you'd like to keep them private or if we may answer them on the show. If you have a comment we pay $10 for any feedback received so go ahead and do your worst. Thanks for listening and you can hear us next week on your mileage may vary.