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Episode 90: Quadruple Nut November, Pricing Sex, Sweaty Gym Clothes, Loose Women, 69

Team YMMV | 11-3-2022 | 1:03:59

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Was it even possible to record a piece of media this week without a single reference to the new Taylor Swift album, Midnights? We managed it, but at some point we should perhaps go through the so-called "Gaylor" theories which hold that she is now dropping major hints that she is bisexual or even gay. They're probably just living "for the hope of it all," as they say.

After establishing that we were not going to observe No Nut November, we discussed the surprising similarity between the monthly cost of a man who visits lots of escorts and men who engage just a single sugar baby.

Next, we look for a way to view 69 as a compelling sex position, followed by a discussion of multiple ejaculation, a woman who allegedly wears her boyfriend's sweaty gym clothes to masturbate, and another (presumably different) woman who's worried she's too "loose."

Also, another update on the latest sex talk on TikTok.

We get a lot of our questions from Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/90/69

https://ymmv.me/90/condoms

https://ymmv.me/90/loose

https://ymmv.me/90/gym-clothes

https://ymmv.me/90/quad-ejac

https://ymmv.me/90/bellies

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is controversial but mostly in good faith on today's show we're going to talk about another man refusing to wear condoms surprisingal experience a woman whose boyfriend thinks she's too loose and more I'm Keith my co-host is Mike I think I misbook twice in that intro. But.
  • [00:11] Mike: And.
  • [00:18] Mike: Was pretty good.
  • [00:19] Keith: Anyway, we're gonna go with it. Do you I have a question Mike do you have a sense that your kids get you sick more often than you otherwise would be yeah I was on a family vacation last week and then over.
  • [00:30] Mike: Definitely yes, that's definitely a thing.
  • [00:40] Keith: Halloween I was with my girlfriend's family and I feel like I had low grade colds basically for the entire time and the kids are always like yeah have the snipples and stuff. So I know where it's coming from.
  • [00:49] Mike: The worst. Yeah, the that's yeah, there's there are a couple age ranges where that happens it's mostly in the younger age ranges another really disgusting element of that is ah well I think every school has a um.
  • [00:57] Keith: Um, yes.
  • [01:05] Mike: Kid in it. That's like ah the character Pig pen from it's from Peanuts right? and so there are various things you track from that whether it's lice or like worms or whatever like they're various like disgusting parasitic things that you can get and like what'll happen is.
  • [01:07] Keith: Yes.
  • [01:21] Mike: Ah, schools are really really good about lice typically now but they oh fleas is another one. They'll typically be like a kid that just starts to keeps Reinfecting everybody and like they'll send out all these notices. You know they're trying not to single a kid out but they'll be like hey you know everybody needs to take these various actions and the thing is like like. For example, there was 1 person at my kid's school.
  • [01:24] Keith: Jesus.
  • [01:36] Keith: Ah, yeah.
  • [01:41] Mike: Who I'm pretty sure was repeatedly giving everybody worms and like as soon as this kid I won't even say the gender left the school ah because this person's parent left moved it all. Stopped it all stopped immediately. So it's very clearly because of this and it yeah was you know and the thing is it gets passed to the parents and then you're like Wow I.
  • [01:50] Keith: Yeah, while.
  • [02:00] Mike: Like I need to take a medication. It's not. You know it's not a big deal but it's just annoying gross. So yeah.
  • [02:01] Keith: Right? I feel like it's a pretty big deal like I was virtually never sick for the better part of 3 years because of covered I still haven't gotten covered and.
  • [02:16] Mike: Yeah, me, neither.
  • [02:20] Keith: I don't like having colds is a major inconvenience I mean I'm running like eighty miles a week right now and so having even a little bit of sickness really makes that miserable.
  • [02:29] Mike: Sure, Yeah, no, it's annoying.
  • [02:33] Keith: I hadn't really I mean there's plenty of reasons not to have children. But that's yet another one that I need to put in the con bucket.
  • [02:44] Mike: It's a yeah, it's a real con. There's a period of time. Ah yeah, when they're like you know 9 10 something like that that doesn't happen. You know it starts to normalize.
  • [02:54] Keith: yeah yeah I mean on the other hand they can be pretty delightful at times but all right, let's move on ah did you have any patter for us today.
  • [03:04] Mike: Sure, um, yeah I have a couple of things. So I I don't know if it was last week or the week before we talked about the ah kind of typical there was there was a spreadsheet or something that had the typical allowance numbers for sugar babies.
  • [03:19] Keith: All right? yep.
  • [03:21] Mike: And yeah and you can still find this on the having no not a sugar lifestyle forum rather subreddit and it's also in our vast archive treasure trove of podcast episodes. But you know it it generally came down geographically wherever you were to maybe 1 to $3000
  • [03:32] Keith: Ah, yep.
  • [03:40] Mike: A month. There are women who are saying they're getting 10000 you know and they're people a much lower but but typically it's kind of surprisingly stable and yeah on some level makes sense so one of the most prolific posters on the having fun hobbying subreddit which is um, his name is Uncle Tony
  • [03:43] Keith: Yeah.
  • [03:58] Mike: I've seen Uncle Tony have sex a lot of times because he likes to post videoslandestine probably against the site rules now that I think about it maybe the women know he's doing it but he posts stuff about his participation in the mongering hobby that is people who frequent prostitutes and.
  • [04:12] Keith: Okay.
  • [04:15] Mike: He's in the bay area and any but any listeners who in the bay area. You can actually contact Uncle Tony on the site and he will for a small fee actually introduce you to this scene in the east bay of the San Francisco bay area and there are actually people on the subredd who have taken up him up for on it. Um, so anyway he posted.
  • [04:25] Keith: Oh interesting. And and subsequently vouch for him. Okay, Okay, so he he like tells you what sites you need to go to or how to find pros with goods.
  • [04:34] Mike: Yeah, they just said they had a good time. Yeah I think there was one person who who got into some detail about what happened? um.
  • [04:47] Mike: He likes to go to What's what's he likes to go to what's called the Blade which is where you actually find women walking on the street but also he's very familiar with the massage Parlor scene and sort of the Clandestine brohels. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot to it so you gotta know what you're doing. Um.
  • [04:55] Keith: Jesus. Okay, yeah, okay, all right? So what does he say.
  • [05:04] Mike: So yeah, he's talling up what what happened? ah this year he says this month I guess October Twenty Twenty two including sugar baby. So he also goes on seeking and sort of has more transactional sugar baby situations.
  • [05:12] Keith: Who.
  • [05:20] Keith: And.
  • [05:22] Mike: Anyway, this month he said he spent $2995 so just under 3000 I think that's pretty interesting because that's basically the same amount sugar daddy's pay. Ah so it so it sort of doesn't matter. He said that um he this year.
  • [05:29] Keith: Right.
  • [05:38] Mike: Ah, why don't you guess guess how many women he had sex with this year
  • [05:41] Keith: Um, is he routinely spending $3000 a month. Okay.
  • [05:42] Mike: Yes, no, actually that's a little high sorry because he gives a full year I'll give you the full year total just to help you. He said he spent fourteen Thousand Eight hundred eighty eight dollars this year great that he's he's got a spreadsheet. Obviously he's paying roughly one hundred and $20 an encounter was pretty low.
  • [05:54] Keith: yeah yeah yeah I mean we're in early November now. So.
  • [06:02] Mike: Oh shit, you can now. Well no, he might have well you could if you can do the division in your head you'll know the answer actually I ruined it? Um, so Ill just you didn't hear it. Okay.
  • [06:07] Keith: Oh I didn't hear I actually didn't hear did you did you give a numerator like the and the number of women in a certain month or something.
  • [06:13] Mike: I gave the total amount he spent and the total amount he spent per woman which then could be divided to by the astute in the audience so he says he's had sex with 124 women this year he says to.
  • [06:19] Keith: Now yeah I wasn't paying attention. Yeah I don't know that yeah, we've paused long enough. What are what are the. Jesus that's that's one every every other is what every two point five days or something.
  • [06:32] Mike: Yeah, says to the haters for those dudes on your hating and saying I'm fucking ugly and sub par women I say this to you if you're not on my fucking level shut the fuck up I care I couldn't care less. You were what you're fucking I'm having fun I'm fucking beautiful women and to be honest, what the fuck do you care.
  • [06:47] Keith: Right? yeah.
  • [06:52] Mike: And he just continues like that. Um, but but I I thought it was pretty intriguing that the number was like exactly the number that we found for sugar babies. So there's some kind of kind of goal number that kind of people circle around that are going to do this a lot.
  • [07:02] Keith: Right.
  • [07:12] Mike: And it's since say the 2 to $3000 range per month.
  • [07:15] Keith: Um, I'd I'd be curious. Does he say he's had 125 episodes of having sex or hundred 25 different women. Wow.
  • [07:22] Mike: He says 125 plus girls. So I'm going to take that as I don't think he has visited the same one. Yeah and I have to tell you like because I've seen some of these videos like spotty condom usage definitely spotty. So.
  • [07:34] Keith: Right.
  • [07:38] Mike: It's like I was watching have you ever gone to the site E fucked okay E fucked. You should well it might be too too intense for you but that's a site that has some pretty. It's basically the the person there's a definitely a humorous that writes the ah the text for it and they scour porn sites and camsites and so forth for amusing.
  • [07:39] Keith: No, maybe I have I'm not sure. Okay.
  • [07:57] Keith: I see okay.
  • [07:58] Mike: Footage and put it together and they like to sort of intersperse little animations and text and one of them is one of the things that they've interspersed a few times is a little animated character who sings to you some song That's basically you've got aids now. Yeah, so that's how I feel a little bit about this guy.
  • [08:13] Keith: Yeah I mean I don't know how to handicap the risk of behavior like that.
  • [08:23] Mike: It's got to be I mean not aids necessarily but for because I think femaleto- male transmission of H I V is actually not that likely really not likely at all but other diseases.
  • [08:31] Keith: Yeah, but but part of that. Yeah I mean yeah I think more helpful would be not participating in anal sex. Um.
  • [08:42] Mike: I Don't think that I don't think that ah being the penetrator carries that much risk in anal sex. It's the penetrate T for sure because of the tearing So forth.
  • [08:51] Keith: Yeah, but there has to be some transmission dependent trator.
  • [08:56] Mike: Um, but you're missing hang on. You're missing the main point here you're missing the main. There's a couple main important points 1 is this this fact that the number kind of like circles around say $3000 the other one that I think is really interesting is that and I think this might have to do with attract him as I've seen Uncle Tony in these videos and he's definitely a bit overweight. Um.
  • [09:13] Keith: No.
  • [09:15] Mike: Not the most attractive man not terribly unattractive either but not the most attractive I hope he doesn't get angry for me saying that? Ah, but but ah, he ah. Maybe some sort of attractiveness thing is so the question arises like why wouldn't someone like this is already spending that much money simply transfer over to the sugar baby baby area and drop down to say 4 women a year right? that he can repeatedly have sex with like there must be some. He's focused so much on variety that yeah.
  • [09:43] Keith: Yeah.
  • [09:47] Mike: It's it's not like the sugar baby would cost 10 times as much money and he would almost certainly get a much more attractive woman that was my dishwasher finishing. Sorry.
  • [09:50] Keith: Um, yeah, what is that beeping? Okay, all right I mean yeah so the benefits of his strategy are just you know, exceptional variety. Ah. Maybe on average slightly less attractive that would be a con and because of the type of what like he's probably I mean you said that he sometimes meets with people who would ah.
  • [10:12] Mike: Um, yeah.
  • [10:27] Keith: Qualify themselves as sugar babies. But these are probably the kinds of sugar babies that are actually fucking a lot of men and are something more akin to a prostitute so because of the type of women. He's sleeping with he has increased disease risk so in exchange for exceptional Variety. He has. Ah, maybe slightly less attractive women and significantly more disease risk.
  • [10:49] Mike: Yeah I think there's 1 other positive here for for him that might be relevant which is I'm guessing that if you want to do sort of a longer lasting say six month plus or three month plus sugar daddy sugar baby relationship and I know that there's some I mean you know there's some that last but you know many years
  • [11:04] Keith: For sure.
  • [11:07] Mike: If you want to if you want to do one of those you're going to actually have to spend a lot more time actually in kind of a relationship with the person and maybe that's just abhorrent. Yeah, maybe he just doesn't want to do that He thought he thinks I'd rather it's to me maybe just some such a nice guy. Ah I actually would view like going to dinner with the woman and.
  • [11:09] Keith: Yes, yeah, this is a good point.
  • [11:25] Mike: Sort of getting to the know know them as a positive because since they're attractive and they're going at least seem to be interested in you. It'll be a lot of fun right? But maybe there's some guys where they like that that they they just they're like no I don't I can't believe that you're attracted to me or so somehow it's not fun and they just want to.
  • [11:31] Keith: Bright.
  • [11:38] Keith: Or he just doesn't care for whatever reason.
  • [11:42] Mike: Yeah, he's got you just wants to have I Assume you agree that you would given the choice you would choose the sugar daddy sugar baby thing not the massive variety escort route.
  • [11:53] Keith: Yeah I think my perfect situation would be something like ah, a revolving door of relationships that last for like. 5 or 10 dates. Maybe some of which are simultaneous but because they only last 5 or 10 dates. Yeah I don't I don't know if this simultanity is important.
  • [12:19] Mike: Even yet even in the show. It's somehow that's in between right? That's you're you're actually in between the sugar baby. You're you're you're in sort of ah I'm not even sure how 1 pulls that off that's tricky I guess being very attractive on tinder. Yeah.
  • [12:30] Keith: Um, you can do it. It's just ah yeah, and a lot of people upset with you which sort of flies in the face of right? So I prefer the woman to actually have feelings for me.
  • [12:34] Mike: Lot of work. Um, right.
  • [12:48] Keith: And if they do then right? There's going to be just there's going to be extra being mad at me and since I prefer them actually liking me I also would prefer him not hate me and it's sort of there's a paradox there.
  • [13:01] Mike: So somehow it enhances your experience to be the 1 letting the woman down.
  • [13:06] Keith: No no, that doesn't I don't like that I don't like breaking up with people.
  • [13:13] Mike: You would rather like you would rather ah sort of be on some real life analog of bachelor in paradise where the women just have to leave because their time's up or like Logan's run okay that makes sense.
  • [13:19] Keith: Yeah, something like that something like that. Yeah, this is somewhat possible in our current culture because women are yeah, they've basically been convinced by I don't know feminist powers that be. That ah casual sex and short term relationships are okay and that you know in addition to being ok like maybe women should even ah, seek out such things because I guess that's what feminism is. But yeah I think like. You know in the 50 s you would have to court people and then you know Peter parents or whatever you would have to like clear a set of 4 or 5 different bars before you could get some alone time with them. Ah.
  • [14:13] Mike: Doesn't that mean that ah the emotional gratification that you so crave and the ego boosting then is limited like if a woman you're dating is in this sort of Hookup Mentality doesn't that mean that she will not do as good of a job. Basically. Amping up that feeling for you that she really really likes you because she'll be sort of guarded I mean because she's expecting it to probably be a hookup and.
  • [14:35] Keith: I Understand that question and your intuition there is okay but I think I don't know maybe this is just me being self-important and big headed. But I think. I am better than the average person that most people date and so even if they were the type of person to be seeking out a series of casual relationships. They will like me more than the average person they see.
  • [15:05] Mike: And so then the the downside there is the breakup part is is not great typically but.
  • [15:08] Keith: Yeah, but it's a little bit mitigated by our current cultural Zeitgeist I can basically fade people and they wouldn't be as outraged as they would have been even ten years ago
  • [15:25] Mike: Um, that makes sense that makes sense. Okay.
  • [15:26] Keith: I haven't been single for like eighteen months so I did but I mean if things have changed at all I'm sure they've changed for the better on this axis for at at least for what I'm looking for.
  • [15:31] Mike: Um, that makes sense and right? Okay, so you're able to get sort of um, a max point there. That's great.
  • [15:42] Keith: Yeah I suppose I don't know. Yeah I mean you know a listener might think well that's Awful. He's ah seducing these women and getting their hopes up when there was really no reason for them. Do So but I don't think I say or do anything that implies that I'm looking for marriage or whatever. Ah I think I'm pretty honest about ah that kind of stuff and I think I do treat the people that I see very well.
  • [16:11] Mike: Um, yeah.
  • [16:18] Keith: And so yeah I mean if it's the case that before you go on a single date. You have to be committed to considering marriage with this person then I mean I guess I'm I'm violating some contract there but otherwise I don't think that I'm doing anything particularly wrong here.
  • [16:37] Mike: No no.
  • [16:38] Keith: And if the person knocks my socks off then I I will stay with them for a while. That's what's happened with Alyssa I really like her and so we're still together.
  • [16:45] Mike: That makes sense. Yeah no I don't think that there's anything wrong with that. It's just following the sort of cultural pathway that's been laid down. So.
  • [16:54] Keith: Yeah, yeah, all right? Um, you want to move on to some Reddit topics or do you have anything else.
  • [16:58] Mike: Well we is one of the topics SixtyNine
  • [17:01] Keith: Oh yeah, it's pretty pretty far down there. But I I got it here I don't even remember what this post was I edited to our master spreadsheet a while ago. Okay, yeah, this is this is a short and sweet question. So this person says yeah, this person says does anyone actually enjoy 69
  • [17:12] Mike: Um, all right? Why don't we start there.
  • [17:19] Keith: Can my sixty nine enjoyers drop a like or comment try and approve a point to my girlfriend that there are people who enjoy this pose.
  • [17:27] Mike: Right? And your position is you do not enjoy it.
  • [17:32] Keith: Um, not exact. Okay, my position is I think that ah 69 is a negative sum game like I think it makes the quality of the oral. Being given by both parties less than it would be if they were uniquely focused on it and I think that the feeling of receiving oral in a 69 situationship is yeah, you can't enjoy it as much because you're. Doing, you're trying to multitask and so yeah I would rather do them sequentially than in parallel.
  • [18:13] Mike: Okay, so if you and I think that makes sense and that's a pretty common Viewpoint. It's not your concern is is is not primarily the orientation of the woman's body I'm assuming the woman's on top here. Let's let's set aside the man being on top and 69 because that's a more professional. Aggressive position. That's not very convenient. Let's assume the woman's on top now we famously. Ah you when you have a woman sit on your face you prefer to face the other Direction. So I take it that this part of it.
  • [18:34] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [18:47] Mike: There must be some small negative. That's her facing the wrong direction right? Thus putting your nose near her heinous. Okay.
  • [18:47] Keith: I see yes okay I immediately recognized where you were going there. Yeah I wonder if it's I don't think I've done 69 for some time I wonder if it's.
  • [18:56] Mike: Um, yeah.
  • [19:01] Mike: Okay.
  • [19:06] Keith: Difficult to deliver the proper kind of clitoral stimulation when you're in that orientation.
  • [19:15] Mike: It could be let's let let me just do a thought experiment though really quickly. So if you were lying on your back on the bed and receiving a blowjob from say your girlfriend and let's say that let's say that you were enjoying this blowjob I know that you.
  • [19:17] Keith: Um, okay.
  • [19:26] Keith: To say? yeah.
  • [19:34] Mike: Not your favorite activity to receive. But let's say you know you've decided this on this particular day to enjoy it and let's say that there is another very attractive woman in the room naked would you rather have that second woman just sit and watch the activity or would you rather have the second woman sit on your face.
  • [19:39] Keith: Yep. Um, yeah, Ah, who yeah, this is it. This is an excellent.
  • [19:52] Mike: Like which would you tell her. She's like look I'm going to do some 1 thing for the next five minutes it's either going to be your face and interact you with my genitals or I'll just sit over here in this comfy chair and watch.
  • [20:06] Keith: Yeah, um, this is a good thought experiment I guess I would prefer to be going down on her. So and so why not with the same person.
  • [20:14] Mike: Interesting now right? right now I Would you know Obviously if we're not in like the world of the video game portal. It is impossible for your for the same person to do this and to have her body.
  • [20:22] Keith: Right.
  • [20:32] Mike: Oriented toward the headboard and be giving you a blow at the same time. It's simply not physically possible. So there is an element of the scenario that's possible and I'd say most of the threesome porn that looks like this that you see a lot of times you well. Okay, most of it The women are facing away from each other meaning.
  • [20:47] Keith: M.
  • [20:50] Mike: 1 woman is well. They're both facing the same one. However, you do somewhat frequently see ah threesome porn Mff where the 2 women are facing each other and fondling each other at the same time so given the choice between the so you've you've called the we've beckoned the woman over she says Keith just 1 more. Question here which way. Do you want me to face which way would you tell her to face and by the way if she's facing toward your girlfriend there. Ah maybe your girlfriend would get on top in other words ah you know piv would initiate.
  • [21:18] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [21:21] Mike: And there might be some fondling happening between them or they could face the other direction and then there's sort of no interaction which which one would you pick the.
  • [21:26] Keith: Yeah I like this thought experiment too. Okay, what does it say about a part before I answer what does it say about it person if they prefer them to be solely focused on me.
  • [21:38] Mike: Um.
  • [21:44] Mike: Um, oh nothing I mean that's it's a little I mean it doesn't say anything necessarily. It's interesting that it's interesting that you would view a woman grinding her badge in your mouth as focused on you right.
  • [21:45] Keith: I mean I mean sorry the person.
  • [22:00] Keith: Fair point. Yeah I mean there's some. There's some. Ah, there's some you know complicating factors here like I do prefer giving oral when my nose is above their clit.
  • [22:01] Mike: But but no I don't I mean that that would be reasonable.
  • [22:16] Keith: Rather than below their yeah rather than in their taint.
  • [22:21] Mike: And is this because of the nose or is this because you feel like your tongue is better able to kind of lift up her cliteral hood or something else.
  • [22:28] Keith: I think I think both I think having your nose in that area is a little bit risky I know there are many and increasing a number of people out there who are into various Mouth. Asshole play. So maybe they would like nose asshole play as well or would or would not be as potentially bothered by it as I myself would be but.
  • [22:50] Mike: Um, and it.
  • [22:57] Mike: I mean if you had to pick between what those 2 which would you pick would you rather put your nose in the girls butthole or would you rather lick it. Okay, that one was easier all right? okay.
  • [23:08] Keith: Knows house. Yeah I mean it'st either It's I don't I find generally I find poop disgusting and that's ah famously ah where they poop from. Yeah.
  • [23:21] Mike: Um, where it comes from. Yes.
  • [23:26] Keith: And you know there are various things you can do to clean up. We've discussed at least a half dozen episodes maybe a dozen ah but you know it's not perfect and I don't like mixing. That kind of risk with my pleasure. Yes, sorry.
  • [23:44] Mike: Okay, but to to get back to the point here you it sounds like you would actually prefer the women to be focused on you and so actually you would pick them not facing each other. Okay.
  • [23:54] Keith: This is a difficult hypothetical if I I think I'm ah I'm a bit ambivalent about it.
  • [24:00] Mike: I Think well I mean certainly if I'm watching a porn the porn where the women are facing each other is more compelling.
  • [24:06] Keith: Yeah I think so too It's tricky I mean I can't even really see them interacting because my fucking eye sockets are in her asshole.
  • [24:16] Mike: That's true. Yeah, okay, so then yeah I mean gets back to the original point is okay so I mean yeah I wonder if it this this just boils down partly to just the orientation of the woman's body not being perfect or ideal for you. But you're also saying I mean obviously if it's. 1 person instead of 2 there is this issue of them having to multitask people having to multitask and so maybe the maybe the quality of but the the thing I would say here is that in my experience I don't have a.
  • [24:34] Keith: Right.
  • [24:47] Mike: I wouldn't say like this is like 1 of my go to experiences. However I would say that on average across my lifetime. The intensity of my orgasm from a blowjob is higher if there is like a vagina in my face than if there isn't.
  • [24:48] Keith: Yeah.
  • [25:03] Keith: Ha.
  • [25:06] Mike: Just because like it you know it makes you I don't think so I think oh well, it could get annoying if it was every I don't I think it's because you're just you know makes you hornier you know.
  • [25:10] Keith: Um, is that because it's unusual.
  • [25:19] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah.
  • [25:24] Mike: So that so so I mean for example, you might enjoy it more if there was no expectation that you're going to be particularly good at performing oral. It's done for your pleasure just to have it. Ah you know enhance your experience.
  • [25:36] Keith: Yeah, yeah, okay.
  • [25:39] Mike: And also I should say it's negative I think in a lot of cases for women. Not the least of which in the blow scenario women like to have more ability to sort of see what's going on with the guy like just like how a glory hole. Is not that compelling to women partly because well there's a bunch of reasons. But 1 reason is that you can't actually see the guy at all. You're just seeing his penis the same kind of thing I mean you're just down there with no access to his facial features and so forth. So.
  • [26:00] Keith: Right? right.
  • [26:08] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [26:11] Mike: There they're reasons I in my experience women typically are not that interested in 69 I don't know if you share that.
  • [26:15] Keith: Yeah, 69 yeah I I don't really ever put it on the menu. So I don't have a strong opinion I think women are pretty submissively malleable. So if I angled things that way more often.
  • [26:23] Mike: Are.
  • [26:35] Keith: I think I mean if I did it every time like some people might get annoyed but I don't know if I've ever been shot down for attempting 69 I do want to say 1 more thing before we move on enough ah 69 I think it's it's not like 1 person's on top or the other I think 69 can happen.
  • [26:37] Mike: Um.
  • [26:39] Mike: That makes sense.
  • [26:55] Keith: And like a side to side situation. And that yeah you might need to get a pillow because like otherwise you're like holding your neck up from either the left or the right which could be uncomfortable.
  • [26:59] Mike: That's true. Yeah, but I think that I think that's like almost yeah I mean that's really not compelling.
  • [27:09] Mike: Um, once npn the woman I guess has to hold her leg up or something like there's some kind of complicated gymnastics right.
  • [27:16] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right, you can't spread your legs or you can. It's just not easy. Ah, all right I'm moving on this person says why do men refuse to wear condoms with me. I'm an 18 year old female if that matters this is happening. It gets worse. This is happening so much lately that i' started to think it isn't just bad luck with the people people I end up with and it's something else I haven't had good sex and so long. It's so long because I have to constantly turn guys away when they tell me they won't put on a condom. Like I get it. It feels better without one but I'm not trying to catch a sti or have a baby with them I meet up with guys mostly from dating app sometimes I'll get approached by one when I'm out and we go on a date later but I always let them know the condoms are mandatory before I agree to go home with them and they tell me that it's no problem once we get there and finish with Foreplay. Do a one eighty and won't wear one so many have tried to just continue like it's no big deal and I just get some Bs about why they can't put one on it sucks met up with 10 guys in the last month. Wow and all of them didn't want to wear a condom and might just that unlucky or could they be other factors.
  • [28:24] Mike: How many how many of those were uncle Tony that's what you want to know can I tell you the ah ah Tiktok joke that goes along with this a little bit so this is a fairly common one that women post it's it's a thing where they'll mouthd along with ah an audio clip.
  • [28:28] Keith: Right. Yeah, like to yeah.
  • [28:40] Mike: And of course the woman's scantily clad and she'll say something. It's the clip says something like you know guys always ask me if they can use the other hole That's so annoying because I always say like what do you think I want to get pregnant. We get it? yes.
  • [28:40] Keith: Yep.
  • [28:55] Keith: Ha Ha Ha Yeah I get it. It's It's a reversal because you're supposed to think that they were going for anal but they already were having anal. Ah.
  • [28:58] Mike: Yes, exactly yes, that's the default hole for these women is the anus I mean I have to assume this woman's simply not that attractive I mean first first of all so it's a little hard for me to understand this scenario. Yeah.
  • [29:12] Keith: Well, all right hold on hold on the issue is she's selecting people that are low quality and there's about 20 red flags in her text that her text is only about.
  • [29:16] Mike: Yeah.
  • [29:27] Keith: 90 words so it's an impressive ratio of red flag the red flags to words. But yes one one potential explanation is that ah what protect potential explanation for why the matter are so low quality is that she's not super high quality herself.
  • [29:29] Mike: That's true. Yeah, that's basically right.
  • [29:43] Mike: Right? I mean she's eighteen and that's compelling in and of itself. But the ah the notion that she's having this conversation with the guys I mean so she says ten in a month and she's.
  • [29:44] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [29:58] Mike: Has she's spending enough time with each one of them to have a conversation about condom usage and then okay, okay.
  • [30:01] Keith: I bet she's lying about that she she sort of paints herself as like a Jesus Christ you know, perfection character here right? she says but I always let them know that condoms are mandatory before I agree to go home with them and they tell me it's no problem. Like this survey says no on that one like I doubt it.
  • [30:22] Mike: It's true I think I think I think there is a section in the gospel of Luke about women who want to be Christ like having sex with 10 different men a month that's pretty.
  • [30:31] Keith: Right? right? right? Ah, but yeah, she's at least arguing that she's yeah that there's no sort of signal crossing on her part I mean look. The thing that she says she's doing is the right thing I mean she should if she's worried that men are not going to you know respect Condom usage then she should bring it up early and often. Um.
  • [30:59] Mike: I sort of think though that the thing you're trying to accomplish with the Com users. There's obviously the pregnancy risk but there are other ways to mitigate that. Um and thenre true true. It's growing more and more complex.
  • [31:07] Keith: And in some states. Yeah.
  • [31:16] Mike: But the ah let's see there there multiple ways mitigate that and there just the Sti risk Um, but she's having sex with a lot of different guys. So I'm not really sure that she's going to be managing that So well Anyway, and so I mean it seems to me that simply reducing the number of guys you're having sex with might.
  • [31:20] Keith: Yeah.
  • [31:35] Mike: Improve this situation all on its own because yeah.
  • [31:37] Keith: Do you think? Ah well I agree Obviously if you could take the ah numerator town that sort of trumps Whatever risk mitigation. Yeah I mean your your risk is the.
  • [31:54] Keith: Risk you're taking times the number of incidents and if you lower the number of incidents you'll have taken less risk. But I.
  • [31:58] Mike: Hang on a second. Yes Eric I know he meant to nominat. Go ahead.
  • [32:03] Keith: Mouth stuff. Whatever Um, what was I saying oh yeah, but I don't I don't think I've been on dates with women where they've brought up condom usage.
  • [32:11] Mike: Um, if you yeah.
  • [32:21] Keith: Before it's before like it was even clear. Ah that going home with them that evening was on the table like I've been on first dates this has happened to be twice and maybe more twice that I distinctly remember where we're on our second drink and they start complaining. About ah men not liking to wear condoms and you know in some ways you might say like oh that's just like good for state patter 1 no, it's not and 2 they're just basically signaling that if I say the right thing there which is.
  • [32:47] Mike: Huh.
  • [33:00] Keith: Oh I Love Condoms I Have no problem using them I have many at my home. Ah, if if I if I could like clear the bar there that ah I can invite them home that evening I I I think that's why they bring that up at least in those two cases that is.
  • [33:05] Mike: Um.
  • [33:18] Keith: Clearly why they brought that up. Um, but I can't imagine I can't imagine a situation where somebody can say something like I I feel like I could detect when a man is lying. So if a man says something like yeah, you can tell just by his tone.
  • [33:19] Mike: Yeah, it makes sense.
  • [33:37] Keith: And by his like comfort level with the topic of condoms whether he like actually intends to wear a condom or not I think.
  • [33:41] Mike: I Think that I mean if the women I mean your supposition was they're not even having the conversation. But if they're having the conversation with the guy or they're bringing it up in the way that you suggested I think in almost all cases. The guy is going to mirror what he thinks the woman wants to hear because that's the ideal way to. With this kind of topic to continue the train running down the tracks. Um, but then yeah I mean look like if everybody's drunk or something like that. Yeah, when he's probably not going to care as much I'm like I think that generally she's right that when the men don't care as much about it. This is as women do.
  • [34:02] Keith: Yeah.
  • [34:15] Keith: Oh for sure there are tons of men who will virtue signal that they're fine with condoms and then actually not be but I think yeah I think there's just like a set of there's like a conversation tree that you have to navigate where I think you can.
  • [34:19] Mike: Yeah.
  • [34:35] Keith: Lower the about face Once you get to the bedroom percentage I think you could say something like look dude. This is what everyone says and I'm just telling you right now I'm serious about condoms like I don't have sex without condoms. So if that's something you're not interested in that's fine. But.
  • [34:53] Mike: Um, right.
  • [34:54] Keith: We should move on here and if if you give me any hassle about that I'm just going to leave and so just so you know like that's how I am and I think if you say that then you know I think you would you get things sorted.
  • [35:03] Mike: Um, or she could him.
  • [35:09] Mike: Yeah, she could also just say look friend. You're the tenth guy this month and I had a little weird discharge yesterday.
  • [35:18] Keith: Um, yeah, that would probably work too that does like a different ah initial approach on that conversation tree I was talking about. But yeah I just I think what happens is she's meeting shitty dudes and.
  • [35:23] Mike: Um, yeah.
  • [35:35] Keith: She's not actually being as clear about it as she postures in her Reddit post and so she's just running into the situation time and time again where the guys are kind of sleazy and so yeah, either vet the men better or.
  • [35:43] Mike: Um, yeah.
  • [35:49] Mike: Um, it's up right.
  • [35:54] Keith: You know, expect that that's going to happen ah more often than she would like all right I'm going to move on here. Um, let's do this one. We haven't talked about loose vaginas for a while. So here. We go yet. Ah, my boyfriend told me I'm too loose and I'm crushed throwway count today. My 39 oh sorry, she's 39 years old and he's thirty one today my boyfriend told me that he can't come during sex because I am too loose I've had two children. So maybe that's it I don't know I know that the loose vagina thing is a miss myth. But I just feel completely crushed and I can't help it I just shut down completely and I left my sexual history includes abuse and so took me time to feel comfortable with him in this way and it had been years since I had sex at all I honestly didn't think I'd ever had sex again and I was 100%. Okay, with that. So when I did feel comfortable. It was amazing at least I thought it was. He's only. Calm a handful of times from sex and for a while he was saying it was because he's not in shape like he used to be but today he sat me down and told me that although not being in shape is a factor that really, it's because I'm too loose. He does come in other ways. Toys hand job blowjob. Yikes yeah i.
  • [37:05] Mike: Toys and.
  • [37:08] Keith: Ah, genuinely don't know how I will feel comfortable having sex with him again. Not only am I mortified by this but now knowing that it's pretty much just for me and not for him just feel like I've taken 100 steps backwards he was kind when he told me but damn it hurts. Yeah gosh. Ah.
  • [37:23] Mike: Ah, well I mean I think there could be like a relative looseness thing going on here. She said she hadn't had sex in a long time and then she had sex with him and then yes I mean maybe what happened was the first few times they had sex she was extremely tight because ah.
  • [37:31] Keith: Yeah, um.
  • [37:42] Mike: Shen had sex in a while and then he's comparing it to that. Ah, and that makes some kind of a difference. Yeah.
  • [37:50] Keith: Um, yeah, or maybe she's just so excited to be having sex again. She's like super super super lubricated.
  • [37:59] Mike: Yeah, in my my opinion on this is that I think that generally like tightness is not so much a thing is not as such a not a big thing so much as lubrication is um so yeah, so therefore like yeah, it makes sense that it could just be that that she's.
  • [38:08] Keith: Yeah I agree.
  • [38:16] Mike: She got too. She got too comfortable with him.
  • [38:16] Keith: Um, I mean it could be. She could also be for standard deviations out on the looseness curve.
  • [38:23] Mike: It's possible. Ah, it's the enemy that's possible. He could also be very small.
  • [38:25] Keith: Like I think it could be yeah I mean it could be that I mean I think that men are yeah I think size with men probably varies more than looseness with women. Well I don't think that. I know that? Ah, but even for men I mean unless you're like 3 standard deviations too big or 3 standard deviations too small. You're probably fine and with with women. It's probably 4 or 5 or something like I've I've had sex with her.
  • [38:52] Mike: So that's right.
  • [39:03] Keith: Somewhat sizeable number of women and I've never even thought I mean I There have been times when it's like yeah I guess like so slippery that it's a little bit not ideal but I don't know if I would describe it as loose. It's just it's just hard to get friction.
  • [39:19] Mike: Yeah I mean I think yeah I think the more likely case here is there's some reason she didn't she say that he's having trouble orgasming regardless or like it's kind of complicated. Well he does. But okay, maybe maybe it was simply the existence of Toys made me think that.
  • [39:28] Keith: No no, she says he does come in other ways with toys hand jobs or blow jobs.
  • [39:38] Keith: Oh he has death grip or something.
  • [39:39] Mike: Ah, yeah, there's some other yeah that like he's he's got some sort of unrealistic expectation but he could he could try no nut November have you have you considered doing no not no november it's too late right.
  • [39:52] Keith: Um, it is too late and I.
  • [40:00] Mike: How many nut how many nuts are you so far in this is today. We're recording this well this is gonna come out on this gonna come out on November Third let's go you know? Yeah yes, so so how how how many nuts so far. Do you have.
  • [40:06] Keith: Um, it's November Third Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's when we'll release it. But.
  • [40:17] Keith: Ah I think two I don't have a spreadsheet.
  • [40:18] Mike: Um, that's not how many so yeah, this is another ticktok trend of like women coming on saying oh I'm going to make no not November hard for you. You got it so they like parade around or prance around you know.
  • [40:31] Keith: They I mean Tickt Tock thirst traps are going to tick to thirst trap right? like they they don't need a month to have an excuse you know, just December they'll be in like elf costumes and January it'll be.
  • [40:41] Mike: Um, yeah, yeah, you know that's true.
  • [40:51] Keith: Some do years related thing or who knows.
  • [40:52] Mike: Yeah I don't think very many people actually go I mean they're just gonna lie that would be my assumption there. The people who say there they they don't orgasm for a month they're just lying. Yeah men I mean.
  • [41:08] Keith: Um, no I bet some people try you think after you think after ten days or just like fuck this.
  • [41:11] Mike: Oh I believe they try but it just gets to annoy. Yes, yes I think it I think it becomes too just too annoying. Yeah, you probably like it. You'll start noticing your behaviors change. You'll be frustrated like.
  • [41:28] Keith: For sure I mean there's okay, first off, there's some amount of money that would compel me to do it.
  • [41:29] Mike: Quick with people.
  • [41:33] Mike: Of well yeah, let me ask you? This is what where does that come from anyway is no not November something that's women want guys to do or the reason I ask is because it's like let's say women shouldn't want men to do this if you're dating a guy and you like him you should want him nutting a lot either by himself or with you.
  • [41:41] Keith: I don't.
  • [41:53] Mike: If he doesn't nut for it. A long time. You're he's gonna have sex with someone else. But when you agree.
  • [41:58] Keith: Yeah, it's definitely going to drive up his promiscuity desire. Yeah.
  • [42:03] Mike: For sure and so I yeah I don't I don't know who's ah who exactly is pushing for this. Maybe it's the no fap subreddit kind of.
  • [42:09] Keith: Yeah, there must be some sort of purported benefits to such a streak I just don't know what it is yeah, that's Mo Novembermber move novembermber.
  • [42:15] Mike: I thought I thought November your sister would grow a mustache for like prostate health. Okay, so there's maybe connected if you grow a mustache. You're nobody a lot of sex with you or you know. Um, right, it's an outgrowth.
  • [42:30] Keith: Yeah, this is ah this is a derivative of November yeah, all right? Well we don't have any advice for this woman with the loose vagina. Other than that it's probably not loose I mean what if it is though.
  • [42:40] Mike: Right? I know I mean yeah, it's prop right? and I mean there are various exercises people can do but ah, it's and yeah I'm not sure it's an on. It's not that common.
  • [42:55] Keith: Yeah I mean I think ah I think Ockham's razor is that she's not actually too loose. But yeah, all right? Ah, this is about a 22 year old woman and a 22 year old man. My girlfriend masturbates in my dirty gym clothes when I'm sleeping correction when she thinks I'm sleeping I know she tiptoes out of the bedroom from time to time in the middle of the night.
  • [42:55] Mike: For it actually to be loose right.
  • [43:13] Keith: I Know she digs through the dirty laundry until she comes across my gym clothes and I know she specifically wears them while she masturbates what I don't know is whether or not I should mention it to her I think it's hot and it turns me on knowing that she does this but I'm not sure of me not knowing as part of what makes it hot for her. But just keep my mouth shut and let her do her thing or do I risk potentially ruining something sexy and secretive by talking to her I don't either right.
  • [43:35] Mike: Um I don't understand the story I don't understand how he knows she's masturbating like so she gets.
  • [43:40] Keith: And how does how does he know she's digging through the laundry pile because he says she has to tiptoe out of the room to get to the laundry pile.
  • [43:44] Mike: Right is she is yeah I mean the only way this kind of makes sense is she does it right next to him or in the same room as him but then he would be hard to conceal. That's true. Yeah, maybe he's maybe he's got a spy cam and he's watching or that that would be a reasonable.
  • [43:52] Keith: What are those Amazon cameras that you can set up all over your house.
  • [44:04] Mike: Theory as to how he could know.
  • [44:06] Keith: He would not be a reasonable activity but it's a reasonable theory. Ah I mean look.
  • [44:09] Mike: Yeah, well I don't know I wouldn't mind access to her spy Cam Check her watch out watch her masturbate.
  • [44:17] Keith: Why would she put these clothes on I mean you know a thing that men do famously is they like you know, get their girlfriend's panties and sniff them while they're masturbating. That's like a trope yet Mike you've seen this? ah ah ah Tv of course.
  • [44:24] Mike: Um, they do set.
  • [44:33] Mike: I Have what we wait wait wait wait. Okay, yeah.
  • [44:35] Keith: Um, yeah I don't find women's dirty underwear compelling. But I mean there are a bunch of people who do you know there are cam models that actually mail their soiled panties to desperate men are are you aware of this like bathwater thing where like a cam girl will like take a bath. And then she'll bottle up the bathwater and send it to people. Yep.
  • [44:57] Mike: I've not seen that one That's really stupid because a bath has too much water in it. Although I'm not I don't totally understand the point. Ah if okay getting her underwear if it smells like a vagina then that sort of makes sense I Guess um if.
  • [45:09] Keith: Yeah.
  • [45:14] Mike: Ah, okay I could see this being compelling in the following scenario if I were in prison and had no access to women for for like a long period of time. Yeah I mean I could see something that smelled like a woman's vagina being a turn on right because.
  • [45:23] Keith: Ah, yeah.
  • [45:31] Mike: There's just no access whatsoever. So I could see that I could see like a kind of preteen boy or like an early adolescent boy finding this compelling but as an adult who has access to a vagina that makes would make no sense to me even if your access is somewhat limited I Still think it doesn't make sense. So okay, so you.
  • [45:37] Keith: Sure.
  • [45:48] Keith: Yeah I agree.
  • [45:51] Mike: Yeah I think that yeah the thing the thing that she's the woman's doing in this situation makes more sense to me because I think that some kind of like a pheromone thing. It's not exact. It's not.. It's not like she wants like his she. It's not like she wants him to nut in something and get his like dried semen. To rub on herself. She's she's going after I'm sure like his his smell right? turns her on because when they have sex. It's kind of an athletic activity for him and he smells a certain way. So She's want the same smell.
  • [46:18] Keith: Yeah, if I think his insight that it there may be something about the tabooness of it that makes it interesting that could be a thing too I don't know.
  • [46:27] Mike: Um, yeah, sure. Yeah, do you? So you don't think if if you have the choice between masturbating which is your normal thing that we've detailed several times on the podcast so people can go back and listen if they want to understand how Keith masturbates or. Doing the same thing but having a set of underwear from your girlfriend that smells like her vagina. You don't think you would amp it up at all to have the underwear I think it might if.
  • [46:58] Keith: It might but it it. It feels.
  • [47:01] Mike: Might for me if I had some other girl like if I had your girlfriends under me think about that. Maybe that would be compelling. Yeah, maybe if it was here.
  • [47:05] Keith: Yeah, it just feels depraved I think but yeah I mean the amp to amp it up more making it more depraved somehow might actually help.
  • [47:18] Mike: To pray you're like standing in front of your desk with a computer screen with multiple porn scenes. Oh that's true. That's true. Yeah yeah I think um.
  • [47:22] Keith: Um, it just yeah, like you just don't want someone to walk in walk in on that scene. It's just disaster. Um.
  • [47:36] Mike: And think it's possible I don't think it would massively increase it I think if yeah I think there's a scenario like let's say you were really attracted to a woman but you couldn't have sex with her. She wasn't attracted to you or whatever getting that woman's underwear I could see being compelling. Okay.
  • [47:48] Keith: Um, yeah, yes, absolutely yeah because it's the the forbidden fruit you know, not forbidden. It's just.
  • [47:55] Mike: Yeah, which makes the cam girl thing make sense. Yeah yeah, the thing with the cam girl stuff that I don't really understand is that I'm not kind of in real life attracted to those women because of their job like they're not.
  • [48:03] Keith: The fruit you can't have.
  • [48:12] Keith: Yeah.
  • [48:14] Mike: So I wouldn't I would much rather have the underwear of someone who is not a can girl who is that I'm attracted to you know because then it's more taboo it's more like some inner.
  • [48:21] Keith: Yeah,, there's something about cam girls and strippers that is repulsive to me. It's I don't begrudge them for their job but it just doesn't feel. It's It's so obviously performative to me that I can't. Really build a fantasy in my mind.
  • [48:42] Mike: So you would if if if they offered you like their underwear for a penny other than it's like a souvenir to show that you got them you you just would have no interest. You'd say I don't I don't want it.
  • [48:50] Keith: Yeah I think so it's hard for me to imagine falling for a camgirl or a stripper.
  • [48:56] Mike: Yeah, yeah I think that's ah yeah, that's probably I mean the only way I could imagine it would is to like limit say oh it's someone who's only done it. Briefly.
  • [49:04] Keith: Right? Or we're doing private sessions and we become you know close through conversation. But that.
  • [49:14] Mike: But if it's her actual job where she's doing it. She's say been doing it for the last two years yeah that's very hard to picture. Um, yeah.
  • [49:19] Keith: Right? right? Yeah, um oh man I had I had a good topic here, but it was deleted. It was about this man who.
  • [49:37] Keith: Was able to come 4 times in a row without losing his erection and I just I feel like that would be such a burden as the woman in that situation.
  • [49:41] Mike: Um, I've seen videos like that you know I think we've looked at some on the podcast but go on. Yeah.
  • [49:55] Mike: What part.
  • [49:57] Keith: Like every time you have sex with your partner. You have to get them to come three plus times.
  • [50:04] Mike: Well I mean he's able to do it. It didn't I mean it's cool. Yeah, there's a question of whether it has to happen every time.
  • [50:10] Keith: Yeah I mean typically I leave sexual encounters after I've lost my erection and yeah, it's hard for me to even imagine what what it would feel like to orgasm still have an erection still presumably be aroused and Then. Have the encounter be over I think that would be disappointing and frustrating.
  • [50:32] Mike: Um, well I mean um, okay yeah I guess I don't know how how the did the timing distance between the the orgasms matters a bit here like if if it's a reasonably long time then I can understand that but typically ah. Have sex and you're still aroused or you could potentially still be aroused that doesn't mean that you're going to be be uncomfortable if you don't have sex again as the guy and you could stop after the one and be satisfied right.
  • [51:02] Keith: I Guess I I I I don't really know what his experience is like I.
  • [51:06] Mike: Well, you? Okay, so when you say yes, 4 on a row you mean like say four in the span of under 10 minutes or something. Okay, yeah, no I that that's a little bit harder to to think about because yeah, there'd be this question of but yeah, what does he have to have 4
  • [51:13] Keith: I'm sure.
  • [51:23] Mike: Like when he masturbates does he have to have 4 or orgasms or else he has blue blue balls afterward. Yeah I mean I'm I'm not sure. Yeah.
  • [51:24] Keith: Right? right? right.
  • [51:36] Keith: Yeah, um, all right? Well, that's it. It's too bad. That's deleted I don't have the details all right. This person says do some men actually find bellies attractive and sexy on women Twenty two feet or 22 year old female here I like my body but I have this belly that I'm insecure about I'm in a new relationship and when I opened up. About that insecurity. My partner seemed a bit surprised because he told me he loves it and thinks it's sexy even having doubts about whether he actually said that because he means it or just wants me to make me feel better about it because I haven't heard much men say much men say that they like bellies and it was new to me.
  • [52:09] Mike: Shouldn't.
  • [52:11] Keith: So is this a thing. Ah I know you don't like bellies that's like a you like yes of course and she doesn't specify so that makes this ripe for conversation.
  • [52:18] Mike: Um, well it depends on what you mean by belly right? Well I mean I think generally speaking. Ah if a woman has a physical attribute that is um.
  • [52:37] Mike: Not sort of not functional and in fact, impedes, the functionality of your body and you could put breasts in that category like it's just not I mean it's sorry it's functional for most women very narrowly during a very short period of their life If if at all um I think things like that can actually be compelling because like it emphasizes.
  • [52:41] Keith: And.
  • [52:57] Mike: That they're not.. It's it's it's not Masculine. It's the opposite of masculine right? It's like it's a physical characteristic.. That's not Opportune or not not ideal for you know going on and hunting animals and stuff and so I could imagine something physically there being okay but if she means by belly like being obese then I don't think. Then I think that's a specific fetish. That's a little unusual.
  • [53:18] Keith: Yeah, yeah I mean some amount of body fat implies fecundity fertility and so that can be good.
  • [53:29] Mike: Um, it Also it also implies like but it's like um how I mean I don't want to it's it's sort of like weakness. It's like it implies like you're not um, you.
  • [53:44] Keith: Disciplined.
  • [53:45] Mike: No, no, no, that's not what I mean that's ah, it's an interesting boy. That's not what I mean I don't mean not disciplined I mean like physical weakness like like your it's it's it's feminine like masculinity is associated with like kind of physical power like your physical your body being forceible and strong and and and having your body be soft is like the opposite of that and so um.
  • [53:55] Keith: Oh I see.
  • [54:05] Mike: I yeah I don't think it's exact like it's not really a turn off in in the sense like a guy with ah 6 pack abs is a turn on a woman without 6 pack abs. Do yeah, doesn't it's not a turn off like it's like because it's not. It's opposite of masculine.
  • [54:17] Keith: I would I would go further than that like when a woman has like a washbird washboard stomach I find it actually sort of a turnoff like I would I like it when women are skinny but I don't I don't like it when they have really. Defined muscle definition I find that actually yeah, it's too masculine I Guess so a flat so a flat stomach is nice but having some baby fat on it is is better.
  • [54:36] Mike: Um, that's too masculine. That's right so in that sense.
  • [54:50] Mike: Yeah, so it's believable to me that he's being honest up to a certain level. Oh that? Yeah, that reminds me. Ah I think we talked about this. There was the guy who who was also on Tiktok was going over what we I think we talked about this what? what? Um, what characteristics men look for in women and what characters women look for in men and men women do not like men to be overweight or obese like a man ideally is fit from a woman's perspective men but men don't mind if a woman is overweight but she cannot be obese.
  • [55:11] Keith: Ah.
  • [55:23] Mike: So overweight is fine and that fits into this the other thing men want is the woman to be nice to him which is really the issue. That's that's where I mean frankly that that that is actually right? It's like the way. Well I think I think it's very much right? It's like sort of astute. It's like the way that women engage their selectivity in relationships is just by being nice to you like.
  • [55:43] Keith: Right? right? right.
  • [55:43] Mike: Oh she's flirting with me. It's like she's just being nice to you like women are not nice to most men because that's how they engage they're suing selection by being being not nice. So ah, but anyway overweight's fine obese. No so yeah, there's some.
  • [55:53] Keith: Yeah, that all feels right. yeah yeah I agree with that and then yeah I mean like there's there's some middle ground there where it's gray and you know then the way the fat is distributed matters but we don't have talk about that anymore. All right? We have time for one more. This person says what is with guys wanting to today anal randomly during Piv and thinking it's ok without permission.
  • [56:02] Mike: Level there.
  • [56:09] Mike: Um, that's it.
  • [56:18] Keith: Yesterday I a 21 year old female was hooking up with this guy a 24 year old male that I've known for a month or 2 we do this twice a week but now it might change after this encounter we were having sexcs and midway through he pulls out and turns me over into doggie. Not a big deal. But when I feel him but then I feel him try to attempt anal. Tensed up and immediately pulled back and said hey what the hell he looked confused and I was like why do you look like that you were just about to do anal with me without even asking. He shru it off and was like I don't know what the big deal is I was just trying to spice things up I just want to quickly say I doubt the conversation went as clearly as that. But in any case I kicked him out of my place because. I felt extremely unsafe I'm confused and angry what is with people who just want to have random anal sex and not even ask for permission or even talk about it. Prior is this a new thing. The reason why I brought this up is I wonder if with the increased normalization of anal sex. If young men are sort of confused about this.
  • [57:20] Mike: Well I mean he on some level he did ask for permission right? I mean he didn't actually wronghold her right I mean you can see Ah, there's a nice actually compilation right now on the site I mentioned earlier E fucked of wrong hole situations and um.
  • [57:24] Keith: Yeah there.
  • [57:33] Keith: Me.
  • [57:36] Mike: Usually ends with the woman crying very upset because yeah I'm talking about like the guy actually achieving full penetration just in 1 quick go with a woman who's not prepared for it. So I mean yeah I mean I think on some level the question would be well. What.
  • [57:39] Keith: Yeah I can imagine. Yeah.
  • [57:54] Mike: Like it's it's this it gets back to this sort of like consent like how do you?? How do you tell? So you know introduce a new sexual behavior into a situation. Do you have to sit down and have a conversation and write it down or do you just sort of like move in that direction and then if the person. Says no you say something like what he said which is he was trying to spice it up and then back off which it sounds like he did I mean he didn't anally rape her as far as I know from this. So.
  • [58:12] Keith: Right.
  • [58:19] Keith: Right? Yeah I mean yeah, that's an interesting direction to take this. What is the ah proper way to ask for consent for various things and you know I think the. Most I don't know forward thinking progressives would say something like well you need to ask for micro consent before you do anything and while that may be ah something to aspire to I'm guessing that most physical encounters are still. Something a little bit like you know, try something get away with it. Try something else, get away with it. Try something else, get away with it. Try something else. You know, get get pushed away I think that's just how it's been done for time immemorial and it's a little bit hard for women. To say no and that's why the microconscent thing would probably be a better paradigm. But I think for better or worse I guess for worse the way things are now are something like what this woman described. It's a man you know pushes boundaries a little bit and. The onus is on the woman to say no. And yeah, yeah, go ahead.
  • [59:35] Mike: Well, but I mean would it would it actually truly be that because I mean yeah, you so you can make it a man doing it to a woman thing but you could switch it around I mean let's say that you a woman's giving you waral. So there are 2 options 1 is that she. Says hey do you want to reach around is the right word reach around. Whatever you know like do you want anal stimulation and the other one is she just sort of like put moves her fingers there and starts like doing something like I think I would I think I would be sort of indifferent like I be in in in either case I would be not um.
  • [59:56] Keith: Right? Yep right? nearby? yeah.
  • [01:00:11] Mike: I did about I would I would I would say no. But um I don't think I would feel like the action based one instead of the verbal 1 is much more problematic now I realize there two so there's a couple things one is that ah the we don't know the details here in terms of like. How far he got or what he how exactly he did this and the other thing is that if I were okay the right way to analyze. This would be like if I'm not getting I'm getting I'm I'm sort of kneeling with my chest on a couch. She's giving me a hand job in that position. So my butthole is very exposed.
  • [01:00:31] Keith: Right.
  • [01:00:46] Keith: Yeah.
  • [01:00:48] Mike: Like in that situation. Maybe it's maybe the action based way is not ah but if you feel very vulnerable which I could understand but at least like in principle like I don't I don't think I think I would be indifferent between the two and I might actually prefer not having to like you sit there talk about it.
  • [01:01:00] Keith: Yeah I mean the obvious thing to say here is the power dynamic between a woman and a man and a man and a woman is greatly different right? So a woman might feel scared or ah unempowered to. Say what she wants I mean to that I would say don't sleep with people. You don't trust, but um, that that sort of victim blaming.
  • [01:01:21] Mike: I Mean part of the problem here. Yeah part of the problem here though is that a woman you could have the exact same scenario where a woman loves anal sex and she's like why do guys never want to initiate it. It's just because guys don't want to talk about it. So it's like oh.
  • [01:01:32] Keith: Right? right.
  • [01:01:36] Mike: And so so basically there are experiences that you might like or want to have that don't ever happen because you are requiring some sort of conversation that a lot of people are not comfortable. Having whereas they would sort of gently gingerly step into the territory physically if they could.
  • [01:01:50] Keith: Right.
  • [01:01:53] Mike: So I'm not yeah, not totally sure. That's that's the that's the issue I would have with like people thinking that verbal consent is better than kind of physical consent. But of course we don't know in this situation. We don't know how you know what he did before before conceding that he was not going to penetrate her anus. Um, yeah.
  • [01:02:07] Keith: Yeah I mean look we obviously both agree that you should not anly rape people. We're just having a conversation here because yeah, this is were interesting to ignore the obvious ah all right? Let's wrap it there. This was episode 90 of your mileage may vary.
  • [01:02:11] Mike: Um, right? um right? yeah.
  • [01:02:19] Mike: Yeah, wow.
  • [01:02:24] Keith: You can find us on Twitter at Ymmv Pod or send us an email at ymmvpod@gmail.com if you have questions, please let us know if you'd like to keep them private or if we may answer them on the year if you have a comment we pay $10 for any feedback received so go ahead and do your worst. Thanks for listening and you could hear us next week on your mileage may vary.