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Episode 91: Is Sugaring Dating?, Young Women's Quest For Commitment, Breast Size Preferences, Dumped For Squrting

Team YMMV | 11-10-2022 | 1:00:19

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Squirting is a tricky subject, and doubly so when your partner insists on some measure of cleanliness (and dryness) in his bedding materials. Is it reasonable for a woman to be irritated that a man dumped her more or less immediately because she squirted? I mean, isn't that a pretty good indication that she was very into him?

Closer to home, we continue our discussions of sugar dating, probing the specific differences between vanilla dating, sugar dating and prostitution. How malleable is the female response during sex and in a relationship more broadly? And, what is behind the bizarre behaviors from young women around sex and commitment

A woman is irritated at a man for not having a condom with him for their first sexual encounter, another isn't sure why her partner wants to see her small breasts. And, a man feels emasculated by his partner's vibrator.

We get a lot of our questions from Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/91/sugar-daddy

https://ymmv.me/91/shirt-off

https://ymmv.me/91/condom

https://ymmv.me/91/vibrator

https://ymmv.me/91/squirt

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is controversial but mostly in good faith Today. We're going to talk about small boob appreciation whether to bring protection to a first 8 insecurity around a female partner requiring electricity to come and more I'm Keith my co-host is Mike. Like I just spent the last hour actually a little over an hour helping a friend with online dating responses his intuition on what to say was basically wrong in in every circumstance in my opinion.
  • [00:35] Mike: Can you give like ah an example like ah, an illustrative example.
  • [00:40] Keith: Um, I might be able to give you a literal example because he texted me an exchange that he had I'm going to see if I can pull it up here but generally he's sort of too enthusiastic and too available. And my opinion I think you need to tamp those things down. Otherwise yeah, it's just not going to work So all right? So This is an exchange she had with a ah ah a woman named let's call her susan.
  • [00:57] Mike: A.
  • [01:15] Keith: And I can't see the entirety of the of the exchange but it starts with her asking him What kind of dog. Do you have and he responds It's hard to beat a hot bath that's candle. It. The only real question is does it have bubbles or not. Aside from bubble baths I practice a lot of meditation Slash mindfulness and I'm getting back into Yoga. That's one message Next one is I've been practicing. Yeah that I think we should ignore that That's not contextually answering the question.
  • [01:37] Mike: Wait that was in in response to asking what kind of dog he has.
  • [01:47] Keith: Because there's some stuff that's invisible. She might have said a couple of other things that he's sort of responding to there all right? So that was the first message second message he sent was I've been practicing improv for about as long as I've had my terrier rufus so about a year and a half and he says I've been performing in front of audiences for about 7 of those months and then the fourth messages they kind of.
  • [01:52] Mike: Okay.
  • [02:06] Keith: Through me on the stage now that I think about it. I think.
  • [02:13] Mike: Oh yeah, I mean the the obvious problem here is that he's trying to he's he's He's basically doing a sales pitch right? He's like look how awesome I am look at these good qualities about me.
  • [02:19] Keith: Yeah, yes, yeah, right? It's you can do that after somebody has indicated that they're interested in you but before somebody's indicated that they're interested in you. You have to remember that. The average woman on an online dating website just has an ocean of men throwing themselves at them and so I think you just got to.
  • [02:43] Mike: Well somebody doing us somebody doing a sales pitch is never attractive right? I mean the the attitude I think you want to to have is there are these things that you do, You're confident in them. You feel good about them and then you just bring them up contextually right? Like oh yeah I did this or I did that or.. But if you if you Aprobo nothing start telling somebody about how you do performances or you like bubble baths they're they're immediately going to be suspicious just in the same way, you're suspicious if somebody comes up and starts telling you how great Ah, you know the features of a car are or I mean everybody's inundated by advertisements all the time and so just.
  • [03:16] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [03:20] Mike: The messages you gave just felt like advertisements to me. So it's just yeah I just think even like a man hearing it would categorize it that that way immediately like oh you know what's being sold to me. It's like the ah Chris rock used to have a sketch where he'd say. Um, basically every sentence by a man to a woman could just end with. Do you want some dick with that.
  • [03:38] Keith: Um, right right? right? Yeah I think a lot of men have this intuition which is that they should advocate for themselves and try to seem interesting and.
  • [03:39] Mike: And the same way that like ah you know want some fries with that from Mcdonald's and it's sort of it's that basically it's like oh yeah, he's you're just offering your dick to her too much.
  • [03:56] Keith: Worldly or virtue signal these various things but the unfortunate reality is there isn't much you can do you can You can definitely hurt yourself but in in terms of like trying to help yourself I think you just. Say something a little bit clever or witty and then hope that they indicate interest and it really doesn't have that much to do with you because for every you there's 40 others and so you know you you just got to play the numbers game.
  • [04:27] Mike: That doesn't I mean that doesn't exactly mesh I assume this is your advice for this friend which makes sense but I don't that doesn't exactly mesh with your meaning Keith's experience with these online dating things like it is possible I mean it is true that there's a set of guys who are actually superior. And intrigue women a lot more right.
  • [04:46] Keith: Um, yeah, yes I mean go on.
  • [04:52] Mike: Well so I mean there are I think that for I think what you're saying is true for some large proportion of men that they don't have enough going for them for them to really stand out and so then it's just purely a numbers game. But I also think that there is a set of men.
  • [05:08] Keith: Yep.
  • [05:11] Mike: Who have enough going for them that they will catch women's notice but kind of reliably.
  • [05:14] Keith: Yes, but even in that circumstance if I lead with you know I have a master's degree in engineering from an Ivy league school and I have this much money and I've been to 86 countries and I've been to over 10 Three michelins start restaurants and blah blah Blah Blah Blah you know I can run a sub 3 marathon like you you can't just list out that stuff and have them. Ah.
  • [05:38] Mike: There.
  • [05:49] Keith: You know fall for you. There's like I think that yeah like well because I think charm is almost more important than any of that stuff at least initially.
  • [05:53] Mike: But the point is you wouldn't need to.
  • [06:05] Mike: Sure I'm just saying that I think that um yeah, making a list would never be attractive. But if you have enough going for you No matter what the topic whatever the conversation you're going to say something that they're going to say oh Wow, that's contextually positive. Or when I say yeah I mean somebody who's in the top say 10% of dating profiles or whatever 5% Whatever it is and so they're not going to have the same problem of that the vast majority guys that of guys have which is that they are really just randomly waiting for somebody to for whatever reason feel like their puzzle piece matches.
  • [06:40] Keith: Um, yeah I think a counter argument would be something like it is true that if I were matching with the same women as him I could just clean up there but because I'm sort of in a higher tier I'm getting matched with people who are also in a higher tier and.
  • [06:41] Mike: With that person's.
  • [06:58] Keith: Those women have ah sort of ah a different um a different array of all star dudes available to them and separating in that circumstance is still sort of tricky I can write and I'm not.
  • [07:09] Mike: That's interesting.
  • [07:16] Keith: Um, is sex obsessed I think as many people on online dating websites and so my general strategy is say something sort of charming or witty or clever and if they indicate any interest say like maybe 1 or 2 more things and then ask them out and then if I can get them out like I always do well. Um.
  • [07:33] Mike: Right.
  • [07:35] Keith: But it is still a numbers game like a lot of women who I'll see their profile be like Wow this person's really great I Think we'd really get along if I got depressed every time One of those rejected me or just outright ignored me I would be very depressed I still have that issue.
  • [07:52] Mike: Sure, Yeah, okay, that.
  • [07:53] Keith: I think almost everyone does I don't know if there's like some tear like to you know, 2 standard deviations above me whereby that never happened I mean you know if Ryan Gosling got on tinder. Maybe.
  • [08:04] Mike: Right? Well even then you get some amount of rejection. It would just be only 50% or whatever 10% or whatever.
  • [08:09] Keith: Right? right? right? right? It would still be vastly more than like the average 6 woman which is amazing.
  • [08:16] Mike: Yes, yes, right? Well I mean yeah, they're they're positives and negatives to that. But I think I think that's generally right? It yes, it's I like this is yeah, there's this bifurcation that's takes place with these dating apps. Where women are able to 0 in on the characteristics that they find compelling much better than say in the old world where they would meet somebody in a bar or in like just sort of a real life situation. And yeah, there's all these people that complain. Well some people. Ah, cheer it but a lot of people complain that that makes it so that there's a small set of guys who are having sex with all the women because it's it's much easier for them which of course isn't completely true because there are women that those men would reject and so forth.
  • [08:56] Keith: Right.
  • [09:03] Keith: Right? Yeah I mean we've been through this before we can move on. You had.
  • [09:12] Mike: Oh yeah, so I have I have a something that's like ah that's like a fairly fairly actually direct sequel to that or comes from that which is I was reflecting the other day on I forget what exactly made me think about this probably Tiktok. Ah.
  • [09:25] Keith: Of course.
  • [09:29] Mike: And was reflecting on the ah absolutely insane behaviors that I was ah female behaviors that I was subjected to say in my early 20 s maybe late teens. Well ah I think number one the main one that I was reflecting on was.
  • [09:39] Keith: Um, like what.
  • [09:47] Mike: The just maniacal drive that you that I would encounter and I think all I think I think this normal from ah young women toward like wanting like the absurd levels of commitment from you In other words I Guess it's sort of their um. Lack of confidence I'm not exactly sure what's behind it. But basically.
  • [10:07] Keith: I Think they're they're culturalized to think that's normal.
  • [10:15] Mike: Ah, but I mean maybe maybe you experience this too like looking back on it like I absolutely I absolutely ah went on dates with people say at age 18 or dated people women where. They certainly acted like they essentially wanted to get married immediately at age 18 and and looking back on it. I mean that's insane right.
  • [10:32] Keith: Right? right.
  • [10:39] Keith: Well, what percentage? yes I think so but I'm 42 and unmarried. So I may not be the best evaluator here. But I mean what percentage of people even in the United States get married to their first ever partner to double digits. It's it's way higher than should be It's double digits and then you know if it's not the first one you know like their first five you know like someone they meet before they're 23 it's almost everyone.
  • [11:03] Mike: It's probably higher than it should be yeah.
  • [11:14] Mike: So your your point being that it works.
  • [11:18] Keith: Ah, well I think it's what people I think humans are sort of engineered not engineered sorry evolved in such a way that they ah augured toward the person that they're with and. Oftentimes they ignore red flag after red flag and it's just easier to stay together if you if you always take the easiest path and you never do the hard thing then you just marry the first person you meet and I think a lot of people do that and I don't think it's the right strategy.
  • [11:41] Mike: So sorry.
  • [11:53] Keith: But I think it's the most common one.
  • [11:56] Mike: So Do you think? but I mean in most cases, the man left to his own devices would not ah wouldn't pursue that I think in general like men are sort of at that age kind of dealing with the woman. Who wants like kind of an outrageous level of commitment outrageously quickly. Um, sure Sure not fair point. Fair point said you.
  • [12:17] Keith: Ah, well I mean does a man ever Want I mean it's tricky I mean ah a teenage boy doesn't even know I mean you know he's susceptible to all the television and movies and things he's seen and so I don't even know what exactly he thinks. And he's so focused on getting that nut.
  • [12:36] Mike: So be so the question then sure so the question then is what's going on in the mind of the young woman is it that she has some hormonal drive. Is it that she's like terrified of being in the world alone is it that she's seen messages on like sitcoms. Ah.
  • [12:50] Keith: It's both ah ah, more like I think the culture drives them toward settling down and I think that there is something in our Dna in particular female Dna that drives them toward coupling.
  • [12:52] Mike: From Pop pop music and so forth. Okay, okay.
  • [13:08] Keith: As soon as possible.
  • [13:10] Mike: But it's not just I mean coupling is 1 thing like oh I want to eat well, although even that like it strikes me as kind of odd because the the importance that they will attach to the particulars of how ah their relationship is functioning are also kind of insane because it's. You know it's I mean yeah, exactly what your boyfriend is doing when you're in eleventh grade I mean how how important could that really could that really be and yet it is really super unbelievably important to them. The guy wants to have sex and that makes more sense to me because it's a near term goal right? It's like yeah.
  • [13:35] Keith: Ah, right.
  • [13:41] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
  • [13:46] Mike: And and and and and I will of course it is genetic and biologically programmed and you could say it's stupid and fair enough. But it's just like this. You know it's like the drive to like eat a chocolate or something. It's like you know it's a drive.
  • [13:54] Keith: Yeah I mean there's definitely a very strong hormonal drive to have sex when you're a teenage male.
  • [14:00] Mike: Right? But the drive that the woman has I I think arguably is way more insane because they drive that like there's in the modern context. There's just no reason why they should have that drive.
  • [14:13] Keith: And what do you mean? But yeah I mean let's put some color on what you mean by insane. Do you mean? non happiness optimizing over the course of the rest of their life. Yeah I think it is too I think mailing your high school bow is a.
  • [14:24] Mike: Sure I think that's pretty obvious. Yeah.
  • [14:31] Keith: In general a big mistake. Is it there like a famous probability problem which is you know they call it the secretary problem where there's there's certain certain number of partners you should evaluate before you even consider picking one.
  • [14:47] Mike: Yeah, it's if it's if someone told me this in college and I've seen it since then it's if you have like a hundred potential suitors. You should reject the first one over e of them 1 over 2.7 yeah
  • [14:58] Keith: Yeah, yeah, there's some answer and that you're doing that so that you can get ah an idea of what the scale is yeah.
  • [15:08] Mike: Right? That's right? Yeah, so they're certainly not doing that and it and ah okay so I mean so in your mind It's simply that their brains are flooded with some hormone that forces them to act borderline insane and then society's.
  • [15:19] Keith: Well yeah, and maybe and maybe in bc 7000 when there were very limited partners and very limited life prospects then that would be the right strategy.
  • [15:24] Mike: Yeah.
  • [15:34] Mike: Well so let me ask you this as a you have dated people in their young twenty s ah or even younger as a full adult. You know you've had this somewhat unique experience that's somewhat unusual like.
  • [15:38] Keith: Um, yes, yeah.
  • [15:48] Mike: Do they do the one have the ones you've dated still had those behaviors or are you somehow selecting that out. You know the ones that are willing to date someone who's much older than them are not perhaps behaving like that.
  • [15:53] Keith: Um, moon.
  • [15:58] Keith: I Think that's a little tricky to answer I mean I've definitely dated some people who have ah fallen for me when they should not have but I think my general experience is because I really dislike when that happens I feel. Badly when that happens I think I correct my behavior so that it's obvious that I'm not looking for something serious or permanent and so women can women know that about me and so even if they're having those instincts.
  • [16:17] Mike: Are.
  • [16:36] Keith: They would be they would know that showing them to me would would be the end and so I I think I'm muddying the water in such a way that I can't really measure I think that if I didn't and in fact, when I when I first discovered various avenues to date younger women that were successful. Um.
  • [16:41] Mike: Right.
  • [16:55] Keith: Successful avenues I mean ah I think yeah I wasn't correcting and I think people were falling for me in a way that was pretty annoying for me. So yeah.
  • [17:06] Mike: And annoying how like the thing where they would expect you to send them a text saying good morning every morning or something or.
  • [17:09] Keith: Yeah I mean they just want things to be much more serious than I think well then I would like them to be and to your point then they should probably want them to be although I am quite a catch. So maybe not.
  • [17:30] Mike: How do they But how does that come across is it that they they ah they just constantly want to have really serious conversations with you about the relationship or if anything goes wrong at all. They just like have a nervous breakdown.
  • [17:40] Keith: Yeah, yeah, you can feel when people are taking things very personally and very seriously in a way that when people are ambivalent. Don't so you know it could be ah.
  • [17:51] Mike: Ryan.
  • [17:54] Keith: Overtexting. It could be over catastrophizing things that don't need to be um, ah, an emergency. It could be I don't know inappropriate ah future planning or and. Gift giving or just or card writing have some letters that are sort of amazing. Um, and yeah, yeah I have a good one.
  • [18:25] Mike: It just ah, just probably like a professions of love. Nice. Yeah so I mean so so and yeah.
  • [18:33] Keith: that I that I have that I found this week maybe I'll read it next week I don't and remember where I put it remind me.
  • [18:41] Mike: Yeah, So so a couple things about that one is that the it strikes me that ah you in those situations are not whipsawed by it the way say a 21 year old man would be because you like have. Ah much have much more perspective and so you're just like whatever when when the when this sort of stuff Happens. It doesn't work as well on you and there's also some aid there's some age where women calm down and stop doing this.. That's the other thing that strikes me.
  • [19:03] Keith: Yeah I mean I go go ahead? Yes, but are they stopping doing it because they've ceased caring or because they just know that's a terrible strategy. It could be both it. It depends on the woman is's the answer.
  • [19:17] Mike: I Don't know the answer to that? Yeah yeah, okay.
  • [19:22] Keith: But I think some women are simulating being cool about stuff like you you you definitely hear from women in their thirty s talking about. Ah you know, acting the way that they think their boyfriend wants them to act instead of the way they would actually like to act So it's. Yeah, it's It's tricky that.
  • [19:46] Mike: So I think this leads in interestingly to the first topic we have from this ah the sugar daddy sugar baby question Now you can read it if you'd like your yes, but.
  • [19:50] Keith: You? Okay, do you want to read or how should we do this? Okay, this is ah my sugar daddy grossed me out. Okay, okay, this person says my sugar daily my sugar daddy grossed me out and now I never want to see him again.
  • [20:03] Mike: You'll see there's there's a relationship here I think it's interesting.
  • [20:10] Keith: So been seeing this guy and I met off seeking for roughly six weeks allowance is decent. He's super sweet and loves animals just like me. However I feel he is too horny for me I've been sugaring for about 2 years now and I pick and choose what I can tolerate and unfortunately he's just not that tolerable due to his poor shape and overall appearance.
  • [20:19] Mike: Earth academic.
  • [20:29] Keith: However, money is decent and personality is on point but he's so hard to be around and literally takes up my entire afternoon I just found out the reason he's able to go nonstop like 3 hours plus is because he doesn't lose his erection after ejaculation which is impressive but not when you're not pulling out. It's disgusting I had no clue he was doing.
  • [20:45] Mike: I.
  • [20:47] Keith: That the entire time and then he goes it keeps lubrication Wow when I asked him if had been doing that the whole time without my permission just made me want to gag in that moment because I don't find him very attractive I'm on birth control and we're both clean but I still found that pretty gross. Plus he sweats way too much and wants me to cuddle with him in the sweat Puddle. So gross to me. The conversations are good until the sex comes. It makes me feel like I'm rather working a job I don't want to Work. He's 52 years old and probably thought it would be okay to leave it in because he got fixed. However, it's Gross. It's runny and made me feel Icky. Oh. Just turned me completely off. So now I'm debating on cutting him off and brainwashing him out of my memory but I feel bad because he's kind of obsessed with me in a way and it's hard to find a sugar daddy that gives decent monthly allowance. Wow. Okay, so let me? yeah so let's just um.
  • [21:38] Mike: There's a lot to unpack there.
  • [21:41] Keith: Steel man her case here. So this guy is like jizzing in her several times and just going for say 70 minutes
  • [21:51] Mike: I mean I assume she's exaggerating The the total time That's that's pretty aggressive I know I know? Yeah yes, that's true. No, she's she's ah.
  • [21:53] Keith: I be 70 was a power of 3 less than she said she said 3 hours plus so ah, you know I'm already doing a lot of work there.
  • [22:08] Mike: She's being aggressive there and she's well go ahead. You want to continue steal manning her.
  • [22:10] Keith: Yeah, okay, well let's what's what's the what's like sort of middle ground between steel manning and straw manning. Let's let's just like ah man her position here. He's he's coming inside of her and then continuing to pump in and out for some extraordinary amount of time.
  • [22:16] Mike: Yeah.
  • [22:26] Mike: Right? So yeah I mean I think ah so I mean there is a couple things that are interesting here. 1 is that there's I I found I find the dichotomy between.
  • [22:27] Keith: Of.
  • [22:38] Keith: Sorry I.
  • [22:43] Mike: The importance the sort of cultural importance that women put on that that society say puts on women in sex on the one hand and on the other hand, the indifference that this woman clearly has toward like what's actually happening. To and inside her body during sex with this guy I find those 2 things like that juxtaposition Really interesting I mean she's first of all, she's obviously not really aware when he orgasms. Ah yeah, it's put a different way. It's like.
  • [23:12] Keith: Yeah, that's that's odd.
  • [23:17] Mike: It's like sex is happening inside the woman's body but the woman is not really in touch with it and the man is much more in touch with it than she is and I find that dichotomy interesting and then on top of that and this must be common with sort of sugar daddy situations. It's just so clear that like.
  • [23:34] Keith: Right.
  • [23:35] Mike: She's repulsed by this man. There's on the one side it makes me think Wow I would be a very successful sugar daddy because I'm not repulsive um on the other hand I think like how I mean there's so much cognitive dissonance here and then to our previous topic.
  • [23:41] Keith: Right.
  • [23:54] Mike: I Mean yeah, you have this person who ah is sharing this level of intimacy with a guy that she just is completely indifferent to repulsed by and then you have the other side of it which is women that age are capable of such extreme adoration of a guy.
  • [24:09] Keith: Right? Yeah I mean I think you see a lot of sugar babies who I don't know I mean they're basically looking for a boyfriend and this one. Yeah, right? All right.
  • [24:12] Mike: It's just kind of interesting like there's a lot to unpack there.
  • [24:25] Mike: Bush this one isn't I or maybe she is.
  • [24:29] Keith: All right? That's that's camp a well maybe she is but she would concede that this person is not that and then in Camp B You have these women who are something much more analogous to prostitutes and I think that's what this woman is is and. So but I'm I'm just sort of confused like ah how is what she's going through better than prostitution for her.
  • [24:53] Mike: Oh well at least it's I mean the argument I would make if I if I had to steal man that case would be that at least it's the same guy every time So then she doesn't have to you know, be walking the blade as it were well so she knows what she's getting.
  • [25:00] Keith: So okay, fine. But and you do what else.
  • [25:10] Mike: She's she's confident that she will get the money she's and she's supposed to get those sorts of things.
  • [25:15] Keith: Um, yeah, but I mean yeah, okay, fine. There's there's a there's an improved safety aspect. Yeah, and Alyssa's dog is upset at me here. Ah, there's yeah sure.
  • [25:29] Mike: How about I got plot. Can you pause the audio. So anyway, the ah.
  • [25:40] Mike: Woman now I lost my turn to thought doesn't matter right here. It doesn't matter. Um, basically it's that the woman. Ah, okay, there's actually something different I wanted to say so let's go that route.
  • [25:41] Keith: Yeah, it does it.
  • [25:53] Keith: Okay.
  • [25:57] Mike: Um I don't actually think that there is that good of a distinction you can draw between a or that clear of a distinction between um, a woman who's a sugar baby who's prostituting versus a sugar baby who's looking for a boyfriend I actually suspect that it's.
  • [26:09] Keith: Why not.
  • [26:14] Mike: Okay I suspect it's much more of a continuum than that because I've read a lot of posts by women who um well I think that the female brain is very capable of ah, bridging that gap with somebody who's paying them and basically viewing them as a.
  • [26:15] Keith: M.
  • [26:34] Mike: Boyfriend and so I think it's much more I don't think I don't think that they I don't think basically any women who are sugaring view themselves as prostitutes.
  • [26:41] Keith: How could this one write something like what I just read and make that case I mean.
  • [26:49] Mike: Well I mean there are plenty plenty of women that date men that they like later regret dating right.
  • [26:52] Keith: Um, yes, but they would say they regret it that that it was a mistake.
  • [26:59] Mike: Well I think that's what she's doing. She's saying she's saying this isn't going great.
  • [27:04] Keith: Um, yeah, but he loves animals just like her. Um, yeah I mean I I mean.
  • [27:09] Mike: True true.
  • [27:18] Keith: She's complaining about an obligation to have sex with this disgusting man and that's what the money is for and more power to her if I were a woman I might do this sort of thing myself.
  • [27:22] Mike: Right.
  • [27:31] Mike: Okay, but but hang on a woman who has sex with a disgusting man for money sounds a lot like a wife in a lot of cases like let's say a man who's become obese over the years
  • [27:40] Keith: I Thought you were going to say prostitute. But yeah I mean yes I agree.
  • [27:48] Mike: Well, it could be a prostitute. This is the point is I think that for women. Um, there's much more of a continuum there than you might think and I don't think that um I mean the main. The main thing is I suspect.
  • [27:52] Keith: Move.
  • [28:01] Mike: That as a man I don't have direct experience about this I'm curious. Be interesting to talk to I mean I've read a lot of posts by sugar daddies. But um I So I Somewhat strongly suspect that ah a woman when sugaring with a guy. Behaves around the same as she would if it were venilating that it's not that that she's able to produce the same kind of reactions kind of interactions in their relationship whether it's. Laughing at the things he says kind of genuinely showing affection for him and things like that like I don't actually think that whereas whereas with prostitution I think that that would not really be possible I think it would be although you know it's there be companionship. That's possible. But I think it would not rise to the same level.. There's a certain familiarity and I think that there's an ability.
  • [28:46] Keith: I See let's see what you're saying.
  • [28:54] Mike: This goes along with why women are there are a lot of professions like nursing and stuff where there are more women I think women are better at like generating that type of interpersonal connection. Ah than men are and so and and I actually think that for them. It's not. It's somewhat ambiguous like it's not clear to them.
  • [29:03] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [29:14] Mike: That this is just an economic transaction I think in their own mind. It's not clear.
  • [29:16] Keith: Okay, so did something break the wall for her here.
  • [29:24] Mike: Yeah, he I think so it's the fact that he was basically ah pulling the wool over Yes, he was pulling the wool over her eyes about like what was happening during the sex act and she didn't like that she felt like there was some dishonesty.
  • [29:27] Keith: Using her as a come dumpster.
  • [29:37] Keith: Okay, so she she thought that the contract she had agreed to was that he comes once.
  • [29:39] Mike: In his behavior.
  • [29:45] Mike: Yeah, that she was she was you know having sex with him in a normal a normal way and it grossed her out that he was basically yeah, it's it's It's a very strange because if if it was if it was just a transaction. You'd say well Okay, maybe yeah, maybe it's he's getting more than one shot on goal.
  • [29:50] Keith: Ah.
  • [30:02] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [30:04] Mike: Would be the prostitution term and that might be irritating but I don't think it's that I think it's that she feels wronged because he he he lied to her. It's almost like he cheated on her. You know he's lied to her about sort of the emotional content of their interaction and that bothers her.
  • [30:17] Keith: I Guess I don't know if he lied he just I don't understand I How she could not recognize that he was orgasming multiple times.
  • [30:24] Mike: He took advantage of her.
  • [30:33] Mike: Well, that's the other part I think that's the other thing I think that there's so many pieces here I Thought that was really interesting too that how it's ah the sex is happening inside her body women. You know. Ah, male sex is viewed as not very valuable female sex is viewed as very valuable and yet she's so detached from this thing that's happening inside her body and I think that's somewhat common actually that a woman can just detach from.
  • [30:48] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [30:58] Mike: Ah, what's happening because particularly in Pi V like they're just not getting stimulated that much. So yeah, she just didn't notice.
  • [31:01] Keith: Yeah, yeah, this whole thing is pretty illuminating in a way that I think lots of people would disagree with.
  • [31:13] Mike: Oh and by the way wouldn't that can't surprise you that much because I think we've discussed this before both you and I have said that we've while wearing Condoms Fake orgasms.
  • [31:21] Keith: Yeah I'm not I don't know if this is illuminating for me I'm thinking about this as a generally interesting post to illustrate. Some themes that we commonly have but I think people would just disagree.
  • [31:37] Mike: Yes, they would disagree. What.
  • [31:43] Keith: Not sure exactly I think they would I think people would disagree that there's sort of I think most people think there's some red line between prostitution and sugaring and I don't know exactly what the collectively bargained rules are that constitute that line.
  • [31:59] Mike: Her her.
  • [32:02] Keith: Both in reality and on the sugar lifestyle form subreddit but people seem to have some rules about it and I think I use collectively bargained properly there by the way.
  • [32:16] Mike: Potentially the I have read I mean there is the sex worker and the sex workers and then sex workers only I think subreddits which are more for escort oriented and it is true that um.
  • [32:22] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [32:30] Mike: The the kind of holy grail for escorts is regulars which is even blurs line more right? So I mean if you're an escort that charges $300 for an hour and you have some guy that visits you twice a week I mean I think maybe the difference is that.
  • [32:42] Keith: Yep.
  • [32:47] Mike: As an escort. You're not expected at all to be monogamous whereas I think frequently with the sugar baby situation. There is some expectation of monogamy.
  • [32:54] Keith: Um, I think the girl is also supposed to care about the man more.
  • [33:02] Mike: Got it well but all honestly this is the thing is in the sex worker One of those subreddits like often they do they will say things where it's like clear that they they have like some kind of emotional and reaction with or ah knowledge of the guy and so forth. Yeah.
  • [33:05] Keith: I know I hear you.
  • [33:12] Keith: Yeah, no I think you've persuaded me to your spectrum argument rather than binary. So all right? Let's move on we have we have We have some topics that I promise we get to all right? This person says why does he want me to take my shirt off during sex if I have small boobs I've been curious about this for a while. My.
  • [33:20] Mike: Yes, which is why? yeah.
  • [33:32] Keith: For perspective me and my partner are both 20 and have been dating for about two months now my press size is a b cup. Okay, not terrible, not terrible. Yeah, but I am dating will ask me once in a while to take my shirt off during sexs or ask why won't get fully naked and I'm not sure why since my boobs are small.
  • [33:38] Mike: No, that's not that small.
  • [33:50] Keith: My ex-boyfriend of a year and his friend told me that smaller boobs could be adorable but not sexy or hot because they don't represent femininity and maturity like bigger boobs do and are typically seen as a turnoff by the majority of men which is understandable. Oh man, what? Ah what a mean X So when I was intimate with my ex.
  • [34:06] Mike: Some good good red pilling there. Jesus.
  • [34:09] Keith: Shirt and bra would stay on and it made sense. So I'm really confused of why my current partner is urging me to take my shirt off with small boobs are detracive like big boobs are should I talk to him about it I'm I'm glad this person didn't mention their age I'm I'm terrified. It's like 16
  • [34:25] Mike: Would do oh do I thought she said that she was 20 Okay yes I mean there's a couple things here I mean obviously for starters.
  • [34:26] Keith: No, this person didn't oh no wait. No she did. You're right? Okay, well whatever. Yeah, so she is young.
  • [34:40] Mike: Bup is not that small I mean I realized that with the obesification of America now like the average bra size is like a double d or something but a beup like sort of historically speaking like if you were to go to ah one of the great museums of the world and look at the naked women sculptures.
  • [34:46] Keith: Right.
  • [34:59] Keith: Yeah, yep.
  • [34:59] Mike: B cup is probably what was considered good. Ah, historically so there's that Also um I mean actually the the the other thing I would say is that ah your shirt also obscures like your waist it depends on the shirt details. But I mean men like.
  • [35:13] Keith: Yeah I mean Mike.
  • [35:18] Mike: To see the narrow waist as well. Right? I mean and again this is a reason why being overweight slash obese for a woman's a mistake because like men want to see the hip waist ratio to turn on.
  • [35:24] Keith: Yeah I think we've had topics around this in the past. But if your partner wants you to leave your shirt on during sex there. There may be an issue.
  • [35:34] Mike: Right? Because they're because for a man there are they're various positives. It's not just your breasts and also it's not like I don't I Also of course take issue with the what was it. The people saying that large breasts are. Feminine and smaller ones are not as feminine. That's not exactly right like it's something different from that that that triggers the male brain I think it has something to do with.. There is a so there is a smallness of breast where it would feel masculine but it has to be pretty small.
  • [36:07] Keith: Yeah I mean you tolerate smaller breasts more than I do or you or you seem to not be yeah I think if there's like a spectrum of like preferring large breasts versus small breasts. It's not preferring. It's to tolerate accept the right word either.
  • [36:09] Mike: The way I would go at that.
  • [36:26] Keith: Ah, and yeah I think generally most men do some men have it as a requirement and I don't I don't have it as requirement. But I think I do more than you do.
  • [36:27] Mike: It's a nice word I think that I prefer large breasts I think all men do actually yeah.
  • [36:40] Mike: The the the issue that I have with large breasts is that it ah realistically unless you're say Serena Williams it ah really limits like your athleticism. Yeah, it just does like it's yeah.
  • [36:50] Keith: Right? Well I mean it's It's extremely unlikely to be in good shape and to have large breasts unless your body happens to store all of the body fat in your chest. Some people are lucky in that way. But.
  • [37:02] Mike: Um, right right? Yes, but there the yeah yeah, but there's a smallness Beyond which does become masculine Also nipple sizes relevant there too right? I mean it's like it does it.
  • [37:09] Keith: Usually when people have big chests and they're skinny their their breasts are fake.
  • [37:21] Mike: Yeah I mean there's a point where you know? Yeah yeah I mean like if you have hair on your chest that's going to be even more masculine like there's some sort of spectrum there and ah so I don't I sort of take issue with the yeah the claim that it's certainly bup I don't I Just don't like I mean I think most supermodels are probably B or C cup right? so.
  • [37:24] Keith: Right.
  • [37:36] Keith: Yeah, there's a big gap. There's a big gap between B and C though there's a big gap between all the all the sizes but even an a cup like it's still more fun to have them out but not I I was trying to think.
  • [37:40] Mike: And I just don't I think that's like in singing.
  • [37:52] Mike: That's true. Sure Yeah no I mean it's probably some other reason.
  • [37:57] Keith: Yeah, yeah I think he's just not attracted to her I think that that's what was going on with her Ex Um I'm not sure but that would be that would be my guess. Ah yeah I was trying to think in my mind how much more enjoyable sex is with women.
  • [38:05] Mike: Yes.
  • [38:16] Keith: But large breasts versus small breasts I don't think it's materially more enjoyable I I feel like I want it but I'm not sure if in execution if it really matters that much.
  • [38:30] Mike: I don't yeah I don't I don't think it would matter I think it's much more important in terms of just like your initial attraction like how much you notice them and so forth than yeah, then it makes a difference. Yeah.
  • [38:35] Keith: Right? right? Yeah, all right? Let's move on to this condom issue. Let's see this person says should I have protection should I have had protection on the first date. I male 24 went on a date with a coworker female 29 yesterday just a little background on me I had been in a fiveyear relationship and my ex is the only lady I've ever been sexually active with anyway, my coworker let's call her nina and I and I have known each other for a year now we've been flirting for a few weeks for a few months before I finally asked her out on date.
  • [39:04] Mike: The type.
  • [39:14] Keith: Also Ed Nina knows my Reddit handle and that's why I'm using a throwaway account I'm taking her hiking near my family cabin. Okay, well, he's already given too many specifics. Yeah, the weather turned bad and she asked could we stay at the cabin. The original plan was for me to just drive her back home anyway, there were no condoms in the cabin and the nearest pharmacy was a decent drive.
  • [39:24] Mike: It's a lot of data. Yeah.
  • [39:34] Keith: She was teasing me for going on a date and not bringing any protection I said I didn't think we'd have sex on the first date my ex and I waited a couple months for that to happen that night nina went down on me and I went down on her and we went to sleep the next morning in bed Nina was actually angry at me for not having a condom. She more. She told me to finger her and I compelled. And I complied the rain was done and I told her that I could drive to the store and come back. She said no and that the mood was ruined. She called me immature and irresponsible I was kind of pissed to be labeled that drove her home and she said next time be an adult. Is it weird not to bring protection on a first date I haven't dated in a while and feel a little unsure of myself.
  • [40:14] Keith: I I think her reaction here is sort of strange I've been in situations where I've ah not had a condom and wished I did I've been in situations where I did have a condom. And wondered if it would be presumptuous to reveal that I had a condom right? like if you if you're in a situation where you're getting naked with someone and you happen to have a condom on you and it was very not clear if sex was going to be happening and you have a condom with you. The person might think like what the hell.
  • [40:36] Mike: Um, interesting.
  • [40:43] Mike: Yeah.
  • [40:48] Mike: Yeah I think that's second that second situation's more interesting but how I mean I don't know how many times this happened to you but what was your solution did you I mean I could think of a few one it one is you just pull it out one as you say don't have it another is you sort of like.
  • [40:49] Keith: Like was your plan.
  • [40:59] Keith: Um.
  • [41:05] Mike: Hide it in there in whatever wherever you are and say oh look I found one probably didn't think of that one.
  • [41:08] Keith: Um, yeah yeah I can't remember the specifics I do remember at least once I can remember once specifically where I pretended not to have 1 and just bought more.
  • [41:21] Mike: No interesting. So you were able to buy more in that situation.
  • [41:24] Keith: Ah, yeah, yeah, there was like a pharmacy outsider house and it was like oh all, right? Well I'll just avoid the awkwardness here.
  • [41:30] Mike: So let me so let me understand So what's happening is it's clear that you're going to have sex you then have to put your clothes back on leave the house go to the pharmacy buy some no.
  • [41:39] Keith: Now we were on the way back from a bar and it was clear where you're going to have sex and so then just bought a condoms on the way back to her place.
  • [41:49] Mike: Interesting and this was this was a situation where it could have been presumptuous that.
  • [41:54] Keith: I think this was a while ago Mike I think the way I managed it is I said something like well we're going back to your place should I stop by the pharmacy for supplies. And probably said it with the cadence similar to that where it's obvious what I'm saying and she said yes so I did I mean look if somebody wants to have sex with you right? like you. It's sort of hard to like blow it unless you like.
  • [42:16] Mike: Okay, got it interesting. That's a good That's a good tactic.
  • [42:32] Keith: Like not having a condom and like having to like put my shoes back on and go get it that would that would be annoying um or ah I mean a lot of women are willing to have sex without condoms which isn't which there's a whole another set of issues.
  • [42:45] Mike: Right? But you've never been in this particular situation where ah it was in it or it was inaccessible. No no, he didn't have one ah but it was inaccessible to buy 1 is the point like where there was no.
  • [42:49] Keith: I've been yelled at for having a condom a right? sorry for not having yeah I mean just for the spirit of this conversation I probably shouldn't prociferate on this. But. Yeah I mean he brought her to this family cabin and didn't think that like maybe things could you know head in a sexual direction like it just seems seems like he should have possibly anticipated this thing but but setting that aside like let's say that. Ah, the pretense is yeah for some reason he just didn't think they would be having sex and now it's obvious and he doesn't have one. Yeah I don't know if I've found myself in his like that.
  • [43:36] Mike: I Think I mean yeah, the way that I interpret this is ah or a way a the the a way that I could see interpreting this is that the woman is ah unhappy because she could view it as him. Using This is an excuse to not wear a condom and you see that all the time in the sex I Um I will say that one time. Ah I've never I don't I don't know if I've had this condom situation come up but I will say that one time I was ah surprised by the. Interest that a woman had in me early in ah seeing her whatever and so she was very frisky and then she told me she was on her period and I said well we could do anal and that worked and that worked.
  • [44:25] Keith: Wow.
  • [44:28] Mike: Yeah, and I did have a I did have a condom thus the condom was was also important there. But so that's ah, that's somewhat similar but I I was able to I I sidestepped the the period with the anal which was a nice parry.
  • [44:39] Keith: Yeah, that's probably not what she was hoping to hear. But yeah, she was first skied up that she was like all right? Well I'll take what I can get so to speak.
  • [44:51] Mike: Yeah, yeah I mean it will Well I I don't know what possessed me to make that proposition at the time but ah yeah, it was a yeah, it happened anyway. So so these these these like of these like.
  • [45:01] Keith: Yeah.
  • [45:08] Mike: Exigencies can lead to people getting so that could be a reason why she was irritated right? is that like oh you're just trying to take advantage of me.
  • [45:12] Keith: Yeah I think I think having you know a 20 pack of condoms in a situation where it was very unclear whether sex was going to be had could be a bit presumptuous but again like if you just use your words you could say like look. You know Newsflash I'm not a virgin I I do have condoms at my house like.
  • [45:34] Mike: Is it is there ever an issue for you. So let's say you have a 20 pack of condoms and you've used 6 of them and you're with a new partner is that ever an issue. Do you feel like you need to go buy a new pack.
  • [45:40] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yes I have worried about stuff like that in the past I I stopped worrying about that after I was like 32 or something but when I was younger I think I would worry about stuff like that.
  • [45:56] Mike: So so now like after age 32 you just you just be like yeah like don't mind the perforated edges honey. Oh that's the worst right.
  • [46:05] Keith: Ah, using the last of a 3 pack. Yeah I yeah I don't think I thought.
  • [46:13] Mike: It's like a 50 pack and there's just one left in there rattling around just like damn.
  • [46:14] Keith: Right? Yeah I think that I think adults like don't get sensitive about this the way that that that kids do I mean kids are afraid to even go to a store and buy condoms. They feel awkward about it. You just you just grow up a bit. Yeah.
  • [46:26] Mike: Sure sure now that mean I remember doing that? Yeah, right.
  • [46:31] Keith: I Remember not feeling great about it too. Yeah, okay this person says my girlfriend can come just using a vibrator I go down on her for very long can can yeah yeah, that's right, That's right.
  • [46:41] Mike: But can or can't oh he means just in the sense of like it's the only way she can do it as opposed to I mean I think almost all women can come just using a vibrator but go on. Yeah.
  • [46:52] Keith: That's right, yeah, he says I go down on her for very long varies in all caps I try to stimulate her clit by hand but nothing she says penetration doesn't do it for her I could be fucking her for hours I did but it does nothing for her. However, ever since we started adding toys. She never used them before she yes she did. She usually come in a matter of 30 seconds just by keeping the vibrator to her clit while I fuck her and also while I don't fuck her mostly the latter I am not really needing for her to come now I read that it's completely normal and most girls can't come through penetration. However I can't help but feel useless as this way sex is just for me to come and not for her to come.
  • [47:11] Mike: Um, Zoom faith.
  • [47:29] Keith: So anything I can try. Ah yeah I mean.
  • [47:33] Mike: What's like welcome to biology biology I mean the ah the you the man orgasming is what and produces the baby that is how baby is formed baby that is how Babi is formed is.
  • [47:40] Keith: Um, yeah, right? I forgot about that mean. Ah I mean I think I might view women as useless if the opposite were true if it were the case that I could have my best orgasms or my only orgasms. Without any involvement from women I think I might think that like women were sort of useless like I think that a woman a woman can say like oh you know I get like intimacy and I get closeness and you know there's some sort of like chemical bonding that happens when he penetrates me and so even though he can't make me come indeed has no chance. To make me come I Still really enjoy you know, having physical sex I think women can say that but as a man I feel like if a woman did like nothing for me in terms of of building to Orgasm. Ah I might view them as a bit Useless. So like I understand this guy's Intuition. He's wrong.
  • [48:21] Mike: Sure.
  • [48:34] Keith: But I understand his his confusion here right? right? yeah.
  • [48:36] Mike: Right? He's he's looking at it from the male perspective. Not not seeing how she would see it I mean I think like this is where you I mean First of all I feel sorry I feel bad a little bit to the extent that I'm capable of it for her for having under undergone the 3 hours of pounding I mean.
  • [48:51] Keith: Right? She could have faked it. Yeah.
  • [48:56] Mike: Yeah, she should learn to communicate better. Ah well or yeah or fake it. But I mean it's yeah I mean that there you you encounter that a fair amount guys. You just think if they just keep doing it long enough and it's just not right. It's just not going to happen.
  • [49:04] Keith: Just dead more minutes. Cla is like bleeding.
  • [49:13] Mike: Well, he's just I mean it's not even the clit right? It would be like the the labia but bleeding I mean he's just fucking her like there's no, it's not even stimulating the right part. Um, and yeah I mean like I think that there are I always find it kind of a bummer in porn like.
  • [49:15] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
  • [49:29] Mike: I Don't know how you feel about this. But if I'm watching a porn that's male pov. Ah, let's say she's lying on a bed and he's standing up side the bed and then she's rubbing her clit with her fingers that I find kind of hot if she's using a vibrator this happens a lot on chatterbata. It's not my favorite Actually I don't know why I think like the.
  • [49:37] Keith: And human.
  • [49:48] Mike: Yeah I think it is I guess I guess I sort of understand what this guy's saying a bit. It's like when you introduce the vibrator. It really starts to feel like the guy is irrelevant right? It's like well I mean he could and I think that's actually sort of true. It's like if a woman's using a vibrator.
  • [49:53] Keith: Yeah.
  • [50:04] Mike: I'm not sure the woman would be I think I think the woman could be potentially somewhat indifferent between you penetrating her and you just like rubbing her breast. Although I think there are it is common for women to have a better orgasm with something rubbing them inside.
  • [50:14] Keith: Yeah I mean I've told this story before I'll tell it again I dated somebody who needed one of those hatachi wands like she couldn't even use like a battery operated vibrator. She needed the thing where like the lights dim when you when you turn it on because it draws so much current.
  • [50:23] Mike: Um, so so.
  • [50:31] Mike: Right.
  • [50:34] Keith: And ah I was in my twenty s and so you know I found it sort of emasculating and yeah, but I mean the reality was yeah because I thought to myself like why am I Even here like what is the point of this and you know she would say all the right things like you know I still want you to participate really like yeah when you you know. Rub me or hold me or whatever and I found that sort of hard to believe at the time but I mean I think it's real like I think women just I mean it's hard for me to imagine but there can be sort of ah various contact that is additive to the experience for them in a way that it.
  • [50:55] Mike: Right.
  • [51:12] Keith: Sort of isn't for men.
  • [51:13] Mike: Oh wait wait wait. wait that's not hard to imagine because ah if ah, let's see if you have the 2 choices of choice. 1 is you're standing beating off onto a paper towel and on on your desk as you do.
  • [51:25] Keith: Say yeah.
  • [51:30] Mike: And choice number 2 is there instead of your desk. It's a woman's face. That's you've never had sex with before. That's very attractive and she's saying dirty talk at the same time like you will have a stronger orgasm and scenario too right? Yeah, so it's the same thing.
  • [51:42] Keith: Um, yes, yes yeah.
  • [51:46] Mike: Like it's like there's a certain and it's like why do you have a stronger orgasm and situation too. It's it's like there's some amount of well it's just like your brain rewards you for actually having like a human female face in front of you. It's the same like I mean a woman orgasming in front of a guy is kind of vulnerable and you know makes her feel.
  • [52:00] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [52:03] Keith: Right.
  • [52:04] Mike: Yeah, it like amps up the sensation somehow. Yeah so I mean that makes sense but it's but but in terms of like is your penis relevant to her orgasm not not exactly I mean honestly like in porn.
  • [52:13] Keith: Right.
  • [52:18] Mike: And I mean in real life too like it's very common when getting a blow for guys to like have to beat themselves off at the end of the blow.
  • [52:21] Keith: It is but I mean that's not a perfect analogy for a number of reasons.
  • [52:27] Mike: Um I I saw a porn yesterday where a guy was having sex with a woman and then he beat himself off into her vagina I mean that's a guy with death grip.
  • [52:38] Keith: Wait How what do you mean? beat himself off into her vagina what does that Even mean.
  • [52:43] Mike: He pulled out. Yeah I hearia it was weird. He pulled out until just the head was resting between the labia and then he sort of like jerk jerked off into there and then.
  • [52:49] Keith: I see wow.
  • [52:55] Mike: It made it kind of a mess right? because it was lots of semen just sort of all around the entrance. It was probably also to make that happen which for some reason people think is compelling. Um.
  • [52:58] Keith: I'm right.
  • [53:05] Keith: Um, yeah, people like cream pies. They like the visual of the semen coming out.
  • [53:12] Mike: It's really irritating that and the the woman sort of drooling the semen out after the blow like ah not my favorite.
  • [53:15] Keith: Yeah, yeah, I yeah don't usually use that to ah get there so to say okay this I think we have time for one more. This person says my boyfriend left me because I squirted I'm a twenty year old female. That's a.
  • [53:25] Mike: I agree.
  • [53:33] Keith: Of 20 year olds today last night. My boyfriend was fingering me while we were watching a movie I began to feel this really intense feeling that I thought was just a regular orgasm I squirted for the first time I was completely shocked because I didn't even know that it was coming. My boyfriend got really grossed out and after I apologized and cried out of embarrassment for a pit he left and I haven't talked to him since.
  • [53:33] Mike: Nice. So.
  • [53:53] Keith: Genuinely had no idea it was going to happen and I didn't mean to make him uncomfortable. Um, yeah I don't know what to say about that. That's not looking good for her. But the reason why I brought this up is yeah I mean everything else being equal I would strongly prefer someone who doesn't squirt. When they orgasm.
  • [54:14] Mike: Well I don't I mean I think it Well of course you're just saying for like hygiene or like cleanliness reasons right short.
  • [54:20] Keith: Yeah, everything else being equal right? So like I'm 1 nice thing about squirting and like maybe this shouldn't be as nice as as I think it is but it often is connected to orgasming although not always and so you can have some. It's nice having like a visual representation of having brought a woman to orgasm. Um, and so.
  • [54:45] Mike: Visual representation you mean like the the urine that you see on your sheet afterward I See that's interesting because you don't see you don't view it the same way I mean okay, you don't want to see like your splooge on the on the sheet afterward that bums you out right.
  • [54:49] Keith: The yes yes.
  • [55:00] Keith: Yes, yes.
  • [55:05] Mike: Okay, and I think I think that should bum out the woman too I'm not I think it doesn't always but I think it should but you would like it if there was that visual representation of from the p that that that somehow is compelling to you like or let's just say let's just.
  • [55:08] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [55:16] Keith: For some for some number of seconds and then after those seconds I'm like oh god.
  • [55:23] Mike: Ah I mean let's say say it's like a garden variety wet spot. That's is that for me that's 0 seconds that that's good I'm just like oh man, there's a wet spot.
  • [55:29] Keith: I Think it's some non-zero number of seconds but seconds is the right unit of time. It's not minutes.
  • [55:38] Mike: Okay, that makes it Yeah I think for me, it's zero like I'm not I'm never sorry well I've told you that like I Ah yeah I mean I yeah repulse isn't the right word I'm irritated by it I also find irritating like if ah.
  • [55:41] Keith: You're like immediately repulsed by it.
  • [55:55] Mike: Like sometimes there will be something that happens during the sex act that I know my partner finds stimulating and then she becomes more wet and I can feel with my penis I find that irritating too which is just like I think some sort of aversion to intimacy.
  • [56:02] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [56:07] Keith: Yeah I mean we've talked a bit about how excess lubrication can be less good. Good feeling knowing that they're enjoying themselves for.
  • [56:16] Mike: I Know it's not that it's it's that I don't like I don't like um, it just feels too. Yeah, just well. But it's always like they enjoy it. You know it's like oh you, you know it's too obvious I'm not sure it just feels like ah feels too rote to me.
  • [56:27] Keith: You Yeah right right? I hear you I disagree but I understand what you're saying.
  • [56:34] Mike: And want it to be more surprising. I know nobody nobody nobody agrees with this this stamppoint I have have you had that experience by the way of like you were something in like you can feel that it gets notably wetter like across say a 10 second time span you're like oh some some something got emitted there. Yeah.
  • [56:49] Keith: Yeah I think so yeah.
  • [56:55] Mike: That's not squirt. That's just lubrication so there must be some way I don't know there's some way the vagina has of like quickly introducing some new lubrication in the middle of the act I don't yeah I don't actually know what the.
  • [57:02] Keith: Um, right.
  • [57:10] Mike: What so it reminds me of the squirting thing in the sense that like there's this actually a scientific question of there of whether that's a real thing or whether it's just something that I that I'm it's a placebo where I think it's happening so you have you ever abandoned a woman because she squirted like this.
  • [57:24] Keith: Um, ah yeah, um, ah no and I think I have not fully pursued.
  • [57:30] Mike: Ah, you have.
  • [57:38] Keith: I Don't know if bands the right word I did it it just it it. You know at minus to them or something like it's a hassle. It really is like yeah yeah and it was and they pretty reliably did it? yeah.
  • [57:44] Mike: Interesting. This was actually someone straight up urinating during orgasm like just like a like ah was the good the Golden arches so to speak.
  • [57:57] Mike: Yeah I haven't experienced that I had the thing I have experienced is the ah vagina getting wetter at the point of orgasm and and the key is wetter but also less lubricative So very very clearly something. It was more the consistency of water than what's the same thing right.
  • [58:13] Keith: Huh. Yeah I Guess so yeah.
  • [58:17] Mike: It's just a smaller amount of it coming out now I mean I knew it was p I knew it was p at the time I mean I guess that like if it's when it I don't know if I feud it as a negative like there's but I don't think it I don't think it added I mean it simply was like oh yes, you had an orgasm.
  • [58:30] Keith: Right? We still get hate mail on this people insisting. It's not p.
  • [58:35] Mike: Yeah that's true. Well some percentage of it may not be p but then there's the question of what is pp is composed of of course many different internal you know inputs. So but yes, there are some glands there that least purportedly can input some by the way. I saw a nice video on Tiktok of a woman ah explaining how how great it is to have for a man to have a woman put her finger up your butt and massage your prostrate but prostate because it helps to it helps ah to open up the um.
  • [59:07] Keith: Yup.
  • [59:12] Mike: And I say this this came into my head because women will claim that like squirting is from the female prostate which is like sort of a real thing Anyway, it'll hope to open up the sort of vessels involved in the prostate which then makes it easier.
  • [59:19] Keith: Ah.
  • [59:29] Mike: For it to squirt out forcefully the semen when needed. Yeah, so it's something that you could consider and you' you know, sort of as a ah therapeutic to improve your nut volume and velocity.
  • [59:31] Keith: Ah, yeah.
  • [59:37] Keith: I Just I just I don't I don't know why I Just don't have interest in items in my colon. It's.
  • [59:49] Mike: Yeah, oh what was didn't we get. We got a hate mail about I Mean do you want to talk about that briefly. We got a hate mail actually didn't we saying about how ah you sent it to me was somebody saying.
  • [59:50] Keith: I don't know. But.
  • [59:59] Keith: I thought.
  • [01:00:03] Mike: You know, hey you're being. You're not being cool to people that like things up their butts or something.
  • [01:00:04] Keith: Oh yeah I remember that when we get lots of hate mail. We should start the next episode with that that we've been recording for an hour and then I'll.
  • [01:00:10] Mike: Okay, yeah, yeah, it was it was It was pretty compelling one but I I think I mean just this person was saying hey you guys I don't agree with you guys and the thing is like just because there are some guys that like being pegged does not mean. The majority of guys like that and a very small minority like being packed is the truth. Yeah, fair point Fair point.
  • [01:00:32] Keith: Yeah I think he was confused on our point of view too. But we'll we'll we'll take tackle it next episode all right? So that'll do it for episode 91 of your mileage may very, you could find us on Twitter at y mmvpod or send us an email at ymmvpod@gmail.com ah if you have questions. Ah, please let us know if you'd like to keep them private or if we can answer them on the show and if you have a comment we pay $10 for any feedback received. So ah, let us let us have it thanks for listening and you can hear us next week on your mileage may vary.