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Episode 96: Unsexy Sex Faces, Bisexual Guys, PPM On First Date?, Penis Pumps, More Automated Literotica

Team YMMV | 12-15-2022 | 1:04:53

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ChatGPT writes us a pretty targeted literotica piece, for Keith. For those who might be interested, yes I definitely had to provide it with some of the source material, specifically the bits about pegging and basketball players. The story is admittedly a little formulaic, but it did come up with some crucial words, like talking about a "glob" of semen.

We discuss a man who appears to have permanently, and negatively, altered his penis -- allegedly through use of a penis pump, though maybe something else was involved.

Should sugar daddies give a "PPM" on a first date? Most guys on sugar lifestyle forum say no, but we have a different opinion.

Another MMF situation arises, this time a man who it turns out is bisexual. The woman isn't too pleased, but she's too politically correct to pin the blame squarely on her discomfort with his orientation. And, another woman dumps a guy for not having a good enough "sex face." I think this is a real thing -- it's that women want their men to appear serious about their sex work.

Responding to a listener's request, the outro this time has another piece of ChatGPT literotica played over it, this time in French.

We get a lot of our questions from Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/96/dildoes

https://ymmv.me/96/dick

https://ymmv.me/96/bisexual

https://ymmv.me/96/sex-face

https://ymmv.me/96/second-date

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is controversial but mostly in good faith Today. We're going to talk about unexpected and inexplicable penis modification a surprise bisexuality revelation a man with a pathetic sex face. Whatever that means and more. I'm Keith my co-host is Mike hello mike were there any loose ends from your solo episode last episode that we need to tie up.
  • [00:19] Mike: Hi Keith.
  • [00:31] Mike: I Don't know if they're loose ends I did feel after recording the episode that I hadn't um I sort of talked around what chat gpp could do the ah chat bot that has been released relatively recently without giving a whole lot of content I actually subsequent to the episode was able to.
  • [00:38] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [00:47] Mike: It generates some pretty compelling content. So there's at least 1 piece of content that I thought would be enjoyable to read.
  • [00:51] Keith: Okay, do you need to tell us what the prompt was or how how shall we proceed.
  • [00:58] Mike: No I can just read it. It's I think it's a pretty good Literotica story. Um, it's relevant to the show. Um, so it it took me I mean I will say that it um often it will and you can people can look this up online. It has various safeguards to stop you from. Generating sexually explicit or adult material and various other kinds of material and so you have to kind of go through some hoops and this one wasn't just a single prompt I had to keep saying rewrite the story but do this rewrite the story but do that but I was able to generate a story that I felt was pretty high quality with I think about for repromps. So not not that much effort on my part.
  • [01:16] Keith: Yeah.
  • [01:29] Keith: Um, okay, is it deterministic. So if you enter a prompt twice does it give you the same thing.
  • [01:36] Mike: No, no, there's definitely in fact, you can tell it to try again and it will give you kind of a different story. Um, actually at one time I was trying to get it to do a piece of Literotica and it ah it it had written some boring stuff and that switched over to writing it as a dialogue.
  • [01:39] Keith: Ha ha.
  • [01:50] Mike: Just because I said try again and I was really actually kind of getting into the story and then it just crashed like it said I you know something went wrong. Yeah, they rebooted the server or something so that happens. Yeah, it was speaking of being conscious.
  • [01:57] Keith: Um, maybe you brought it to its knees. Yeah, all right? Well why don't you Why don't you hit us with this fine piece of literature.
  • [02:08] Mike: Okay, um, so I'm just going to yell I'll just read this Ah this nice story that it made out I'll read I'll give the prompt later if you're interested. Okay here goes Keith had been working on his solution for the advent of code for fifteen days straight and he was starting to feel the strain. He was a brilliant programmer and he was determined to make it to the top of the leaderboard but despite his best efforts Keith couldn't shake off a nagging feeling that he was missing out on something. He'd always been a bit of a loner and he'd never been in a real relationship before one day as he sat in front of his computer struggling to figure out with the next step in his solution. He realized what was missing from his life. He had never been pegged Keith has always had always been curious about the sensation of being pegged and he decided that he wasn't going to let his lack of experience hold him back any longer he closed his laptop got up from his desk and walked over to his phone. He scrolled through his contacts looking for someone who might be willing to help him fulfill his fantasy. He finally settled on a woman named Monica who he had met at a party a few months earlier she was a bit of a wild one and Keith figured she would be up for just about anything. He dialed her number and she picked up after a few rings hey Monica it's Keith. Was wondering if you would be interested in coming over to my place and helping me with something Keith said trying to sound casual sure what do you need? Monica asked. Well I've never been pegged before and I really want to try it out I was hoping you would be willing to come over with a strap on and peg me Keith said his heart pounding in his chest.
  • [03:37] Mike: There was a pause on the other end of the line and Keith held his breath waiting for Monica's response sure why not I'll be over in an hour Monica said and Keith couldn't help but smile an hour later Monica arrived at Keith's apartment and he led her to his bedroom. She had bought a so brought a strap on with her and she quickly got ready to peg him. Keith lay back on the bed his heart racing with anticipation Monica straddled him and he felt the strap on press against his anus are are you ready Monica asked and Keith nodded Monica slowly pushed the strap on into Keith and he let out a gasp of pleasure as it entered him. She began to thrust and Keith felt himself.
  • [03:57] Keith: Oh man.
  • [04:15] Mike: Overwhelmed by the sensation. The strapon felt smooth and firm and it was slightly warm to the touch as Monica continued to peg him. He felt his arousal building and he couldn't help but moan with pleasure Monica leaned down and whispered in his ear. You've got a modest hang on this important.
  • [04:25] Keith: Oh now.
  • [04:34] Mike: Leaned down and whispered in his ear. You've got a modest size penis Keith but don't worry I'll take good care of you I'll make you feel like Lebron James the dirty cock talk only increased keat's arousal and he soon erupted in a powerful climax. He felt his semen shooting onto his stomach and he couldn't help but be curious about the taste.
  • [04:53] Keith: Though. Oh.
  • [04:54] Mike: Keith reached down and collected a glob of semen on his finger and he brought it to his mouth. He tasted it. It was salty and slightly bitter keith lay back on his bed completely satisfied he and Monica spent the rest of the evening together enjoying each other's company and although Keith never did finish his.
  • [05:01] Keith: Oh.
  • [05:08] Keith: Now that part's not believable.
  • [05:13] Mike: Never did finish his solution for the advent of code he didn't regret a single moment of it. That's the part so you you think that's the end of the story you you think that the pegging the semen eating the Lebron James and the modesign penis were realistic now I hear you so were you impressed.
  • [05:25] Keith: Yeah, but hanging out with Monaco is a bridge too far I wonder ah that sounds about yeah well okay I'm impressed generally with chat cheep p t.
  • [05:31] Mike: But story.
  • [05:40] Mike: Yeah.
  • [05:42] Keith: And that it's able to generate such. Ah I mean I can imagine the prompts he used to get it to do that. But I mean.
  • [05:49] Mike: Well some of the things I didn't have to tell it like it just came up with Lebron James it did several things.
  • [05:56] Keith: Right? right? right? Ah yeah, you must have prompted it to say well the advent of code thing and then ah consuming my own the same and and and Monica Monica's a ex ex-girlfriend of mine. But.
  • [06:08] Mike: Yes, all of the like.
  • [06:13] Keith: Mike and I are well Mike's familiar with.
  • [06:14] Mike: Yeah, all of the important details were prompted I would say it although it does an excellent job of fitting in things. Yeah, the original story it wrote had someone named Sarah and someone named John actually I only had to repromp it once meaning I gave it an initial prompt and then I sort of gave it 1 more prompt to.
  • [06:31] Keith: Um.
  • [06:34] Mike: Um, bring it closer to what I wanted telling you yeah telling it to change the names of the people asking it for some dirty talk etc. Yeah.
  • [06:36] Keith: Massage it? yeah. Yeah I mean for better or worse. This isn't a tech podcast but you know it seems like high schoolers and certainly undergraduate college level courses are now going to have this huge problem where kids don't need to write Essays anymore.
  • [06:59] Mike: That's true.
  • [06:59] Keith: That's the the story co coherency of that is much better than basically all high schoolers and probably a significant number of at least non top top tier University students. That's yeah, it's incredible.
  • [07:13] Mike: Students right? Yeah I was using the um, the old oculus earlier today to see what the latest was on the and it's still not great, but they've added some new features I don't I might have mentioned this on the podcast. They added a thing where I mean.
  • [07:25] Keith: Okay.
  • [07:31] Mike: The oculus is you wear a thing around your head. It's kind of heavy and bulky. It's kind of lame and then there are these 2 things you hold in your hand 1 one in each hand. However, they're clearly adding the capability for it to detect where your hands are just using its cameras that are built into it and so if you put down those two things it now.
  • [07:45] Keith: Um, how.
  • [07:49] Mike: Can it puts arms in the display you see arms in front of you and if you move your arms around. They're correct or that yeah they seem correct and I think that it it doesn't seem to work quite yet, but they ah I think they're getting to the point where you could could um, just put down the hand things and for example control. Ah the little you know where you are seek a video.
  • [07:53] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah.
  • [08:08] Mike: With your with your hands. Another thing that's kind of amusing is if you're using it the way our audience members probably would use it. Um, if you catch my drift. Ah if you look down in your lap. You'll see what your hand is doing there if you get my drift.
  • [08:08] Keith: Yep yep.
  • [08:21] Keith: Our now that.
  • [08:25] Mike: Yeah, now it can't detect the other body parts down there although I could can't imagine that would be too complicated but so you just see your hand in sort of a circular like okay pose. You know your fingers and your thumb together doing the obvious moving up and down. Um, one thing I would say and the reason the reason this made me think of that is.
  • [08:28] Keith: Yeah, not yet.
  • [08:34] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
  • [08:44] Mike: While while I was using it I was not terribly impressed by the content as I typically am not I was thinking to myself. Wow if you combine this with ah something that has force feedback meaning that like it feels as if there's something. For example, if I touch the actress in the scene I can sort of feel it somehow if my hand would be stopped. By a glove or something and if you have the actress Run you know, running through something like cheap chat Gp She could say like contextual things and understand what I say and like I could absolutely imagine something that was pretty realistic in short order.
  • [09:04] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [09:11] Keith: Yeah. Yeah I think I mean a lot of people think we're at some sort of turning point here and you know ch gp I mean this is just the first one that's been released. Apparently it's already like 2 years out of date and. Ah, gpt 4 is coming out soon. So we'll see what gains are made there and then yeah as for asturbating and Ai I mean I think haptics are going to get better and better and you know if you combine good.
  • [09:36] Mike: Good, interesting.
  • [09:53] Keith: Physical force response with adaptive dynamic porn man. Yeah I mean it's good for men. It's very good for men.
  • [10:00] Mike: Yup, yes, yeah and I mean for someone like you who's looking for this. There could be some machine that pill pegs you and talks to you as Monica did whispers to your in your ear and so forth. Yeah.
  • [10:09] Keith: Right? right? right? Yeah yeah, if only I could find someone to peg me. That's what's been holding me back.
  • [10:20] Mike: Well, it might be embarrassing for some men to have a human peg them So having a machine do it might fit the bill better sure. But this would be much more. It would seem like it's real per of course. Yeah, a fair point that why not just get a person and in fact, being pegged carries. No Sti risk.
  • [10:26] Keith: I Think you can already do that right.
  • [10:39] Keith: What That's not true. Oh sorry pegged pegged pegged pegged. Yes right? Sorry I forgot that we decided a number of episodes ago that pegging definitionally meant it had to be a dildo.
  • [10:39] Mike: So well. Well, they're not, They're just putting a piece plastic up your butt. Yeah.
  • [10:53] Mike: Oh oh you thought it could be another man. Yeah I don't think so I think that's just gay and anal sex and if it's a Trans woman I'm not sure what you call that it's a tricky middle ground.
  • [10:56] Keith: Well, we litigated that back then right right? Yeah, okay, all right I wanted to talk about this cam girl who's feeling a bit. Exhausted by her job. She says she's thinking about not using dildos anymore I use a lot of dildos on my shows fuck machine torso man etc. I don't know what those things are but I can imagine enough and I reach thousands of viewers on my room but it makes me exhausted because I get online. For more than 6 hours usually and I'm always doing penetration stuff I see so many girls with thousands of viewers and never even use dildos or rarely do do you think it could work for me as well or maybe I made my guys used to it and my viewers would not increase without it. I feel my viewers only goes to four k plus when I'm doing this kind of stuff or maybe I'm not being patient enough. It really makes me sad that I wake up all broke all broke on the next day I don't know what she means? Oh I think she meant to say wake up all broken.
  • [12:00] Mike: Broke down. Maybe that's weird. Oh got it.
  • [12:07] Keith: And some girls make the same amount as I do without having to do so many penetration stuff I Want to change my shows but I'm afraid of not receiving enough tokens anymore.
  • [12:12] Mike: Ah.
  • [12:17] Mike: Um, interesting I mean ah, let's see well you don't you don't frequent them any of these sort of cam shows. Do you.
  • [12:18] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [12:24] Keith: No, but I have seen porn and yeah like watching a girl just like physically abuse herself is not that compelling.
  • [12:30] Mike: Yeah, you have your walking.
  • [12:36] Mike: Um, would you you mentioned a couple weeks ago that you have in your life given money to an only fans person. Ah would you have you ever done that for a cam girl. Okay.
  • [12:45] Keith: Um, oh yeah.
  • [12:51] Keith: Ah, no I have not.
  • [12:53] Mike: Is there some sort of I wonder about this for a few reasons. Maybe I don't know if it's the multiplicity of sites you would have to give your credit card number to if there's some technical reason or something else. But I mean that it I've also never done that Um, but I'm not sure why I also have never done only fans I'm not sure why exactly I just haven't do you have a you have a reason why. You don't do that.
  • [13:14] Keith: I don't know and now that you've brought it up. It's something that maybe I could consider so I am of the opinion that ah given enough time in front of a woman I can seduce them generally.
  • [13:31] Mike: But okay.
  • [13:32] Keith: Or at least I think I am you know significantly above average of this and you know maybe that's immodest. But I think that is generally true and so things like ah online dating when I can get a date normally go well and ah. But the problem is it's It's sort of frustrating to try to get a date that way and so that was why I initially looked at seeking arrangement I've I've still never paid anyone on there but it's easier to meet people on there and once you've met I feel like ah yeah I do well and so.
  • [13:52] Mike: Right? That was why.
  • [14:10] Keith: Yeah I mean why not pay you know some tiny amount of tokens to get five or ten minutes chatting with like some sort of spectacularly beautiful person on one of these campsites now. The problem is I don't think the people on these campsites are that compelling.
  • [14:25] Mike: Interesting. Okay I mean it's not just chatting. You can have them do whatever you want right? Although maybe that's.
  • [14:29] Keith: Yeah, that is not compelling to me I don't want people pretending to be aroused by me. That's not.
  • [14:40] Mike: Why does it have to be there pretending they're aroused by you couldn't it be ah that you have some sort of fetishy thing you want to see someone do or do you not have that.
  • [14:46] Keith: Sure I don't think I have such a thing I mean and most of those things that men have women do on camsites are kind of ah well I was going to say there's sort of dominance play. But there are some men who would. But they call them Cash pigs or pay pigs. Yes, findom. Yeah one.
  • [15:05] Mike: Oh you're talking about a financial domination. Yes I mean ah, okay, so you so in other words, you would not find it compelling to offer a woman $10 to like fist herself.
  • [15:17] Keith: Right? Yeah,, That's not.. It's like the opposite of what I want I want I like I think I like being liked I like I like it when people think I'm cool and so yeah, like I think the thing that would make something like that worth considering is that. Yeah, it's like speed dating almost.
  • [15:38] Mike: That makes sense I think yeah, so so what? what? I think you're I mean at core what you're saying is that paying I'm not totally sure why you would pay on only fans but ok, but paying on a camsite is really for somebody who is pretty sure he would not ever be Liked. It's more of like an incel behavior that makes sense. Yeah, that makes some sense to me. Okay.
  • [15:56] Keith: Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, the reason I pay for people on. Only fans is I think I've paid for like 3 or 4 people ever and it'll be because I've like happened upon their content somewhere and I think they're really attractive and only fans pricing. Is clever. It's normally like $3 or $4 some people charge like $30 but I think well yeah I mean obviously you would need 10 times as many subscribers if you if you do 3 but I would never pay $30 and 3 feels like basically nothing and so yeah, like a.
  • [16:42] Mike: Got it problem. Well I'm guessing that actually the bigger barrier for you might be actually just like pulling out your credit card like just having to do anything financial is sort of annoying right? got it? Okay, so it's like Amazon interesting.
  • [16:50] Keith: Yeah, once you sign up for only fans. It's 1 click so the for the first time. Yeah, they've they've dialed that in I do have to leave my incognito window which is not great.
  • [17:02] Mike: But smart like. Because you have to you couldn't you just log in in your incognito window so that one's logged in then.
  • [17:08] Keith: Probably but I don't I'm guessing only fans has 2 factor authentications they're gonna.
  • [17:16] Mike: Um, and this is because you surf porn normally in Incogito mode. Yeah I never do that I think you've ah I think you've talked to you before about being at work and having to ah I had to have.
  • [17:18] Keith: Usually yeah.
  • [17:30] Mike: Some problem with my laptop and there was this this particular job. There was a um, kind of an I t room you could go to like a place. Ah where where you could get help. Um and I went there and the guys like oh you just need to type this in the browser bar and like the first letter of whatever it was was p and it was just all porn.
  • [17:37] Keith: Um.
  • [17:44] Keith: No boy. Yeah.
  • [17:48] Mike: Um, he's like aha and just kept going.
  • [17:50] Keith: Yeah I mean I'm sure I t people just because most people are not as tech savvy as you and I and so I'm sure people make I'm sure you get better ads serve to you.
  • [18:02] Mike: Yeah I like my browser to know what porn I'm looking at I think it's great. Oh yeah I don't get any ads because I use ad block Anyway, um so it does for me I'm great at it I'm sort of.
  • [18:10] Keith: Thought yeah with the at block doesn't block every ode.
  • [18:16] Mike: Preter Naturallyturally good at a block but okay so this chick with the with the ah with the dildo. What's what's her concern. She's just saying Well how do I stop being so dil donic.
  • [18:22] Keith: Um, yeah I mean I think her writing here is a bit incoherent but I think the concern I'm projecting on her is that I think she doesn't like ramming something in and out of herself 6 hours a day. It's probably physically extremely uncomfortable and she's sort of confused why other cam girls are able to get away with not doing that and she's worried that if she stops doing that that she will lose some viewers.
  • [18:40] Mike: I would imagine.
  • [18:54] Mike: I think she's right because I mean ultimately you get an audience I imagine I mean if you go on like Chatterbait um, people probably don't necessarily notice this when they first go there but there are sometimes like 50 pages and each page might have 20 people on it of people and you can go to page 50 and see what's going on there and it's pretty bad. Pretty ah, pretty tough and ah yeah, the men, the page 50 of the men is particularly rough. It's just.
  • [19:11] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [19:19] Keith: Oh my God I can't believe it goes that far but because even on page one most those men aren't making any money. Ah.
  • [19:26] Mike: That's right that's right I mean you get to page 15 It's just some weird guy in like a clown mask like showing his asshole to the camera. Yeah.
  • [19:31] Keith: Yeah I mean I mean look it's a pyramid right? So at the top of the pyramid you have ah you know the the signature performer on a expensive burlesque show and she doesn't even have to get nude and she goes and you know sings and dance and makes. Ah, bunch of money and then as you go down that pyramid. Ah you have to do things that are probably considered more demeaning and maybe more physically uncomfortable and you know eventually you get to like you know the ping pong ball shows and then. You know you get to take Exotica inside yourself and you know you can keep going down and yeah I mean I don't know this person it it could be that she is compelling enough that she could change her shtick. But ah I.
  • [20:22] Mike: Right? Yeah I think that's right I mean the only real advice I have is in my experience shows that have a man in them are often a little more compelling so and and it's not because like I'm attracted to the man. It's just because.
  • [20:25] Keith: Ah, feel her concern. It's a little risky.
  • [20:34] Keith: Right.
  • [20:40] Mike: Just more they're more like combinations of things that can happen when it's just a woman it right at the is kind of dull. There's just there's a limit. So.
  • [20:41] Keith: Right.
  • [20:49] Keith: Yeah that's right Um, all right? Let's move on here. Um, boy, there's a number of ways we can go let's cover the topics that I read in the intro. So this person says. Ah. What the hell did he do to his dick I met up with an old friends with benefit last week without seeing him for almost two years he always had what I thought was the perfect dick size plenty big but not too much where it hurts while we have sex honestly, no one else has ever come close to being that perfect size before or since. Should really believe she has a goldilocks pianis penis here all right? We were miss. We were messing around and I went to grab it and almost yelled what the fuck it was seriously like 3 to 4 times as big as before he immediately said he'd been using a pump I'm sorry but there's no way a pump could do that like it's bigger than a soda can now.
  • [21:25] Mike: Yes.
  • [21:43] Keith: It felt very spongy and he couldn't get hard on top of that which was fine because I can't imagine how bad how bad that would hurt thinking he had some sort of fat injections or something not his girlfriend or anything so it doesn't matter what I like I just was so Bummed. He did that to himself when he was totally perfect already. Um, so I selected this topic because I have no idea what could possibly be going on here. Do you.
  • [22:11] Mike: I mean I think something like this could happen. It is possible to do kind of permanent damage to yourself with something like a penis pump you're you're aware of what a penis pump is right? Okay I mean it fits over your penis and sort of sucks on it and thereby.
  • [22:21] Keith: Yeah I am yeah yeah, well art. Let me let me stipulate a few things here aren't she says it's 3 to 4 times as big as before so women are infamously bad at estimating penis size which is.
  • [22:29] Mike: Pulling more blood into it. Yeah.
  • [22:38] Mike: Yes, it's not realistic I mean there's not enough the where would the skin come from I mean the for a cylinder the surface area of a cylinder is like two Pi R Squared H or no eight that might be volume notes. It's volume.
  • [22:41] Keith: Um.
  • [22:52] Keith: Yeah, I'm not sure if it's the square of the cube for surface area but in any case.
  • [22:57] Mike: It but it yeah it's going to go as like it. It grows kind of rapidly. It's going to be kind of the square of the radius or something like that and and length so forth. Maybe radius times length it grows kind of rapidly. So it's not realistic and you'd have to wonder what she means by 3 times it's it probably grew like an inch.
  • [23:02] Keith: Right.
  • [23:08] Keith: Right? All right? Let's yeah, let's just assume or maybe it's just wider I don't know how a penis pump affects I mean he said what he did He said he used a pump is it possible that there's some other thing.
  • [23:27] Mike: Yeah I mean there, there's a surgery you could get where they cut some ligament that kind of holds your penis in in place and so it can seem longer when I was in college I knew a guy who for the student newspaper went to a penis enlargement clinic and got a sort of um.
  • [23:31] Keith: Out now.
  • [23:45] Mike: Call that like a a quote consult. That's the right word and yeah, they explained to him that they were going to cut this ligament and that it would make it so his erections were not at high as high of an angle because I think it's sort of in the it's between the ligaments sort of in the area between your penis and like your belly button. It's in that area.
  • [23:49] Keith: Aha.
  • [24:03] Mike: So it's going to be kind of lower but the idea is that like if this is true I mean if you when you get an erection if you sort of feel between your nuts or but you know, kind of toward your taint There is yeah but there but there is some like amount more of a cylinder there I mean there's more.
  • [24:03] Keith: Ah.
  • [24:11] Keith: Like physically wincing listening to this but art.
  • [24:19] Mike: More body to your penis there inside your body and so if you could somehow just like pull that out but you can imagine that then you're disrupting I mean I mean the penis is a little bit of like kind of a canilevered balcony kind of like a woman's breasts with a bra on right? It's it's kind of it's kind of levitating there and so as you pull it out. It's going to naturally sag more when it's erect.
  • [24:31] Keith: Yeah.
  • [24:39] Mike: Um, and I'm sure there are other complications that you can get from that. So.
  • [24:43] Keith: Um, yeah I mean I don't I have Wow I do not have the knowledge about this stuff that you do um I can't imagine it actually being that effective or else I think men would talk about it all the time and consider it all the time.
  • [25:00] Mike: I Would think the but I remember asking this guy. He didn't get the level of detail of course that I would have Wanted. Um, but I mean I I didn't do the consult that he did and I remember asking like well wait a minute if you cut this ligament won't okay, that's great. It'll kind of. Seem longer. But as soon as you push it into anything won't it just push into your body more like it doesn't go both Directions. He didn't have an answer that I strongly suspect that it's that it's actually hard to get any more useful length out of it. Yeah, but it is true I Once had a penis pump.
  • [25:15] Keith: Right? right.
  • [25:24] Keith: Ok, it's all style and no no function.
  • [25:32] Mike: Long ago. It's been thrown in the trash many years. Ah, but because the they're probably there various problems with it. It's It's kind of a I got I actually received it as a joke a gag gift and I was like all right I mean of course no it is more than science. But and it does I mean it creates this suction and it does sort of enlarge.
  • [25:34] Keith: Aha sure.
  • [25:41] Keith: Ah, but for science he tried it. Yeah.
  • [25:51] Mike: Penis but then it also gives this little bit like Pe pins and needles feeling like um like yeah if you just put your finger in your mouth and kind of sucked on it a lot like the finger would start feeling weird after a while or maybe your mouth would too like you're just kind of you're kind of putting yourself in a vacuum or whatever and and it wasn't great. So I didn't I don't think I think I only used it like twice and.
  • [25:53] Keith: Yeah.
  • [26:09] Keith: How long does it last.
  • [26:11] Mike: Just didn't do much for me I'm not sure not that long. Not that long. Yeah yeah, so that's another thing that's weird about this. The notion that his penis was like changed in some permanent way I mean there's also like ah I remember when I was a kid. Um I tried.
  • [26:15] Keith: Okay, on the order of minutes or something.
  • [26:23] Keith: All right.
  • [26:30] Mike: Putting a rubber band around the the base of my penis while beating off and that did something weird too I remember being like I shouldn't do that. There were a couple I had that one and I also tried holding my breath while nutting and I didn't that was bad too that one The reason that one's bad.
  • [26:33] Keith: Yeah.
  • [26:43] Keith: Ah, some people really like that some people like that so much that they killed themselves. Yeah.
  • [26:51] Mike: They killed themselves. Yeah I knew I knew some kid on the bus this kid named Ed ah turned around one one day on the bus in eighth grade and was like hey you know what? Auto erotic asphyxiation is because my mom just told me his mom told him it was a little bit of a helicopter parenting town I lived in.
  • [27:02] Keith: Ah, ah, right.
  • [27:07] Mike: And he told me and I was like well I I never thought of that but I'll be sure not to do it. Ed that's what I learned.
  • [27:11] Keith: I think there was a John Grisham novel or something that had autoerotic asphyxiation in it around that time because I yeah I think I was in like sixth grade or seventh grade when I read that book. Yeah yes.
  • [27:21] Mike: What didn't didn't like David Carraine Carodine whatever his name is the guy who played I was in kill bill didn't he do that to him so or mean purportedly I of course have no first second or third hand knowledge of this? Ok ok, ah.
  • [27:29] Keith: Did. No I mean it was reported widely.
  • [27:38] Mike: But yeah, the um and the reason why so the rubber band the problem with that was it did kind of do something strange I Just remember like it seemed like the blood couldn't get out of your penis properly so just looked bad and I was like this doesn't this doesn't seem good I Don't think I experienced any permanentmitive effects and then the holding your breath thing have you done that before? yeah.
  • [27:46] Keith: Right.
  • [27:53] Keith: Yes.
  • [27:57] Mike: Okay I think I hyperventilated and then held my breath have you done that? Okay so I did that and um I didn't like it.
  • [27:59] Keith: No I have not experimented with breathholding that much what if you like it I mean I know but that.
  • [28:10] Mike: Problem that I I was I was like a teenager and I was doing it at home in front probably in front of the computer in a semi public area I could I knew my parents weren't home I knew nobody was home but the problem is like I I knew because of the way I felt that I could easily have passed out and I was like I can't I can't pass out in this condition.
  • [28:19] Keith: Maha.
  • [28:27] Keith: Right.
  • [28:29] Mike: Can you imagine you come home and your son's like passed out with his dick out and semen all over his stomach or for you would be all over his sleeping bag. Oh.
  • [28:34] Keith: Just not yeah right? right? Yeah, that would be a absolute disaster for all involved.
  • [28:41] Mike: Yeah, it's rough. So I think I tried that once and and also it was uncomfortable because I mean passing out's kind of uncomfortable at least for me like I didn't it didn't make me high or feel good or anything. So yeah, the things we do.
  • [28:50] Keith: Right? Yeah, right? Yeah, that's I yeah I haven't experimented with breathholding some women like to be choked a bit while they're orgasming I I've run into that.
  • [29:05] Mike: I read a thing recently? Yeah I read I read a thing recently probably in the last two weeks where a woman was saying that her impression is that the vast majority of women just go along with that that they don't get anything out of it. So I don't know.
  • [29:08] Keith: Ah, few times.
  • [29:19] Keith: Um I suspect that is generally true. In my case, it can't be because I don't initiate it I'd like I've had multiple women. Yeah like ask for it or like grab my hands and put it on their neck.
  • [29:28] Mike: No, they ask for it. Yeah.
  • [29:35] Keith: Um, always that kind of right.
  • [29:36] Mike: Let's talk about the grab their hand and because so ask for it is just in a nonsexual setting. They're like hey I really like some choking play. Good Okay well what happens you know, could you try to remember one I could see if we could have a story written for us about it write a story.
  • [29:43] Keith: Um, maybe yeah I don't remember.
  • [29:51] Keith: Yeah I don't I don't remember I don't yeah I don't think it'll be that interesting anyway. But enough with Chet G P t.
  • [29:54] Mike: Really.
  • [30:02] Mike: Okay, how about ah how about the? um oh I was just going to read it for myself I wasn't going to read it on the podcast but the ah just I got to have some material during the act what happens like how.
  • [30:08] Keith: Ah, no I I think some women I think some women okay look There's two things. There's first women often enjoy feeling submissive and so some amount of um. Dirty talk or choking or bondage or you know and then you know there's a whole spectrum there but people like playing with that edge because I think that can enhance the experience for them. So some people just like being choked because it makes them feel more submissive. Some people I think also have this ah auto erotic. Asphyxiation thing where their orgasms are more intense if they are I guess oxygen deprivd while they're coming and I'm not sure I've actually run into that that I think about it or at least I'm probably not enthusiastic at choking enough to be useful in that scenario anyway. And so.
  • [30:51] Mike: Okay.
  • [31:03] Mike: Right? But when okay, but when it when the woman sort of putting your hands there in the act like how does what? what? what? how does that work out like you. Okay, she puts your hands there and you do what do you? do you just say no, that's not my thing or do you go? Okay I'll I'll do it a bit. How hard do you push that kind of stuff.
  • [31:06] Keith: Yeah, I'm just not sure.
  • [31:17] Keith: Um, I mean it's It's tricky. You don't you This is one of those things where you definitely don't want to go too far right? I think yeah we have a friend who did who did once and then yeah he was worried that.
  • [31:24] Mike: Are.
  • [31:32] Keith: Yeah, like the person was begging him and you know he's worried that there like could be some bruising or something right? like that's not a good situation. Ah so yeah, like it puts me into this awkward position where I need to almost simulate you know tried to do something that I don't really want to do. And then another thing that people can do is like once your hands are on their neck. They can sort of like grab your hands and you know hold them there.
  • [31:58] Mike: I see okay I was just curious if it's more the sensation of something around their neck or if there's actually like a level of pressure that's required to make it compelling. Okay.
  • [32:08] Keith: I think I Well I mean it I think it varies by person. But I think simply the sensation might be enough for a woman to sort of imagine the things she wants to imagine to feel more submissive. Ah some people probably actually want to be choked out.
  • [32:18] Mike: Okay, okay, that makes sense.
  • [32:26] Keith: And I'm not sure I've run into that yet. Maybe I have I just I just won't do it and like I think women can detect that like if they ask me if they keep saying harder like eventually I'm just going to be like no, we need to stop and talk about this? Um, but I think and I think other men are probably way more.
  • [32:30] Mike: Writing.
  • [32:40] Mike: That makes sense.
  • [32:45] Keith: Aggressive in that in that sense and you know maybe past partners for these people have been as well. So yeah, all right? This person says my boyfriend admitted to having sex with a guy while dating me so this is written by a woman I feel like I don't even know him now we've been together almost six years he said there was something that has been bothering him.
  • [32:46] Mike: Sure Yeah, that makes sense.
  • [33:05] Keith: Told me that five years ago he had sex with a guy 1 time he said he doesn't know why he did it but it but he hasn't done it since he said he is bisexual but likes women more he said he's about 80% girls and 20% guys he's 23 I'm so mad right now I thought I knew him and I thought he loved me. But I guess not.
  • [33:08] Mike: And.
  • [33:24] Keith: Dating about eight months when this happened I think he might he must have slept with the guy when after they were dating pray months this is sickening you should have told me sooner so I could have left him I need advice on what to do now I guess I will break up with him. Okay, this is the plot of that show. Love is blind. Did you. This show cross your radar at the beginning of the pandemic. Yeah, it was on Netflix it was you know their algorithm made it the number 1 thing for the weeks a bunch of people watched it but premise was there are 8 men 8 women and then.
  • [33:43] Mike: It did not why don't you say a little bit about it.
  • [33:59] Keith: Can talk to each other for I think a few weeks and there's a screen they can't see each other and I think they had to propose to each other before they could see each other and then um I'm trying to think if there were any huge mismatches I don't think there were.
  • [34:00] Mike: Oh right right? were any of them like really unattractive.
  • [34:17] Mike: Really oh So the producers probably promise them that there'll be some I Assume there's a reveal at some point Also right? yeah and they're probably promised that they won't be just completely I mean it's not of problem of a mismatch I would think it's just I mean they're the obvious things I mean if.
  • [34:19] Keith: I think they're in season 3 now I only saw season 1
  • [34:27] Keith: There is yeah yeah, ah.
  • [34:37] Mike: Somebody's got like a missing leg or some kind of deformity etc. Okay, go on.
  • [34:38] Keith: Yeah, whatever all right? love is blind is a stupid show but 1 of the one of the contestants revealed to the girl that he was bisexual after they had been seeing each other for a while and she was extremely but a while was like.
  • [34:50] Mike: Okay. Like but did he give her a monkey box. Okay, all right because that would be 1 of the risks. Okay, and well how did she react.
  • [34:56] Keith: 5 dates or something this is before monkey pox right? It was early in the pandemic. Yeah yeah, extremely poorly. She broke up with them and then there was a bunch of discussion online about who was in the wrong there. Ah, her reaction was very bad and sort of seemed potentially a bit homophobic and so that was the focus of most most of the concern. But.
  • [35:20] Mike: What was her claimed reason and the reason I asked this this is that my guess is it's okay, the real reason I would guess would be the obvious one which is simply that she doesn't I mean ok, it's 1 thing for a woman. To find out her partner. You know is really attractive or something or still on a dating app or something and might attract another woman. It's a whole different thing that the guy could just get on grinder I mean that yeah it would you know it's it's you're just learning the guys really close to the precipice all the time and then.
  • [35:54] Keith: Right.
  • [35:57] Mike: And then also there could be I don't know if the word homophobia is right? but there could just be yeah that she doesn't want to that she finds it. She's not into gay stuff. Um, that's not her thing but I'm guessing that what she said it was was similar to this posting where it's where it's like oh he was dishonest.
  • [36:13] Keith: Yeah I think she tried to take that tech I don't remember this show was stupid and it was a while ago but I think yeah unfortunately was on camera when she found out and she reacted very badly in the moment.
  • [36:17] Mike: Um, right? okay.
  • [36:30] Keith: And so she wasn't really able to do the Pr Damage controls. She would have liked to have done I mean everyone could see that like the reason why she was upset was mostly the gay thing. But yeah like I think.
  • [36:37] Mike: Nicey. Yeah, yeah, like.
  • [36:45] Keith: Gosh Yeah I think a man being bisexual is a harder pill to swallow than a woman revealing that she's bisexual.
  • [36:50] Mike: Oh for sure, it's ironic a little bit because a woman I mean yeah and we see this with the Mmf Threesome of course a woman you know be disgusted by a guy giving a blow to a guy but she herself does it So it's it's sort of interesting it. Yeah, it's yeah.
  • [37:05] Keith: Yeah, yeah, well yeah I don't I mean I suspect this man is revealing that he's bisexual because he's actually trying to get out of the relationship that this just seems like a.
  • [37:19] Mike: Oh you think.
  • [37:22] Keith: Well who knows I mean I guess it could also be they've been together six years that maybe he like doesn't like having secrets anymore and he's finally worked up the courage to tell her but to what.
  • [37:33] Mike: Um, that's not how I would get out of a relationship hey babe like just so you know I like I'm on Grinder. It's not.. It's just not because well there are various reasons I wouldn't use that I mean there there are a lot of I mean you could just be honest, but there are even if you want to be dishonest which I Respect. There's other clever dishonest things you could say right.
  • [37:51] Keith: And well maybe it's that he wants to go explore this a bit more.
  • [37:56] Mike: Still I Okay all right may see you're saying he's being honest. Okay, fair, maybe.
  • [38:00] Keith: Yeah I had a friend who got broken up with and I don't remember if if this is exactly what happened but I think this is what happened he got broken up with and then she told him that she was gay that yeah that. She wanted to date women and then of course he saw her on various dating apps seeking men which was sort of the kick kick in the balls and I'm not sure like I can imagine somebody's thinking in their mind like okay this I'm going to soften the blow here I'm going to.
  • [38:27] Mike: Ah, yes, interesting.
  • [38:38] Keith: Tell them that I'm actually gay. It's not that I don't like them. It's that I'm gay and then but I mean they're going to find out. You're not K right? unless you somehow cut off all contact which is difficult in this social media era.
  • [38:41] Mike: Right.
  • [38:52] Mike: Probably yeah, it's probably right? Ah so okay, fair. So it's basically not well yeah I don't know it's it's It's a tricky tactic take of course the fact that she wanted to try out women doesn't mean she couldn't also be trying out men. Do you really? I mean did.
  • [39:06] Keith: I Guess yeah.
  • [39:08] Mike: Let me ask you this when someone breaks. Oh you've have you've never been broken up with basically right.
  • [39:11] Keith: I Mean for the sake of this conversation effectively. Yes.
  • [39:17] Mike: Right? So ah yeah I wonder then when guys get broken up with if they really care ah like what the reason is I mean I always assume that ah when a guy gets broken up with. His the number 1 thing. He's upset ah at about in the moment is the loss of easy access to sex truthfully I yeah I mean well I think it's not a concern as the okay.
  • [39:42] Keith: That's not it. Not a concern for me, but maybe for most yes.
  • [39:52] Mike: I Think that the fat weather that's a concern for you. This is a great point I'm going to make I'm mar. Yeah, this is going to be so so amazing that the yeah because it makes so much sense How much of a concern that is for you relates directly to ah the odds of you getting broken up with so.
  • [39:54] Keith: Okay, I'm ready.
  • [40:06] Keith: Yes, of course.
  • [40:08] Mike: Right? So so you're not so that so those things go together. So the kind of guy who gets broken up with is either. Ah yeah, is is going to be the kind of guy who would be upset about that. The only times I've been broken up with were like early 20 s by an early 20 s woman and of course I think that happens to most guys and.
  • [40:20] Keith: Um, right.
  • [40:27] Mike: Well the early 2020 s woman has an incredible amount of currency right? I mean she's all powerful and so I don't care how you know unless you're like a movie star. She's pretty powerful so but but of course the tables turn in your thirty s and on for the man and so then for for a lot of men rather? yeah.
  • [40:28] Keith: Bright Bright. Bright.
  • [40:46] Mike: And so then the woman is not going to break up with you because you ah she doesn't have that that that that tool to needle you with so so I'm just yeah, the yeah. Okay.
  • [40:55] Keith: Right? Yeah,, That's all, Um, yeah I mean it's not a great situation when ah yeah, like it's better I think for men to have some pressure on them. To ah, be interested and like do the things that their partner wants them to do because of you know some sort of need for sex I think that's sort of the more natural state of affairs.
  • [41:27] Mike: Yes, yes, oh yeah, what you're saying is that you think that and ah as a man. Great gains more power later in life or whatever after after say your 20 s or over that it's actually it.
  • [41:39] Keith: Yep.
  • [41:42] Mike: It actually unbalances male female relationships Now that's probably right.
  • [41:43] Keith: Yes, and and 1 thing that women have I mean there can be other things but most often the thing that they can leverage things with is access to sex and when when they don't become the gatekeeper for that that can cause some issue and.
  • [41:55] Mike: Right.
  • [42:00] Mike: Oh for sure I mean yeah, it's an interesting point. Yeah, and and also with technology not just the oculus giving you a free vr stuff but honestly just like tinder just making it so that as a man all you really have to do is decide what level of woman you're seeking.
  • [42:02] Keith: Relationships.
  • [42:20] Mike: When I say level I just mean attractiveness level or compelling this level and if you're willing to go to a certain level. You will certainly match with somebody and be having sex soon.
  • [42:20] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
  • [42:29] Keith: Yeah, yeah I mean we allude to this every so often. But I do think that the future of ah male sex seeking is going to get really good for men and it's going to get. Ah, tricky for women because I think lots of men will be able to find that their desire for various sex stuff is fully served without actually getting a woman involved and so yeah, it won't just be.
  • [42:58] Mike: Yeah, agreed.
  • [43:04] Keith: Ai and haptics there will be other things too. Anyway, yep but I loggged promise to talk about that sometime but not tonight. Ah okay, this person says a girl just canceled our second sex date because I didn't have a sex face I never heard anyone bring up my sex face until now I didn't even know it was a thing.
  • [43:18] Mike: Are.
  • [43:24] Keith: But according to a girl I had sex with a few days ago I had no sex face. She showed me some examples of good sex face guys make and encouraged me to copy them ll lol she even sent me a digital drawing of my sex face and the ai is taking over Mike and asked if I would enjoy starring. Staring at that during sex. Oh she drew what she thinks he looks like all right, that's kind of funny actually right I said I got the picture literally she was savage as fuck are so-called sex faces something the average person pays attention to.
  • [43:44] Mike: Yeah, I'm guessing it was like I'm imagining like a smiley Smiley face drawn in Ms paint or something.
  • [44:02] Keith: And then the first comment is first time hearing it. What's a sex face looked like according to her. This guy says I tried to add one of the pictures she sent me in my comment but it got shadow band or something so I deleted it based on her examples. She basically wanted me to look like Tom Holland during an intense workout.
  • [44:18] Mike: Okay, who's Tom Holland
  • [44:21] Keith: I think he played Spiderman I think he's sort of Cherubic looking actually.
  • [44:25] Mike: Oh that guy? Okay, okay, do you have a sex phase.
  • [44:29] Keith: I Mean everybody has an organism face is that what she's talking about.
  • [44:34] Mike: Um I don't think so I think it's kind of the serious. It's like um I think yeah I think I understand what she's talking about it's it's it's the kind of serious face. The man gets when he's you know he's down getting down to business now. Yeah I mean I'm imagining the the place where it's the grossest.
  • [44:40] Keith: Okay, focused on the task at hand. Yes, okay.
  • [44:52] Mike: Is when there's ah maybe a movie a scene in a movie or frankly in like a sexual harassment training where you know there's some a man maybe an older than her man and a woman having a conversation and then the man tries to turn it to sex and he gets a very serious look like kind of penetrating look.
  • [44:56] Keith: Um, right.
  • [45:08] Keith: Yes, yeah, okay, okay, no absolutely not even even though this is a audio only medium I don't even really want to show you my.
  • [45:10] Mike: And I think that's the face that she's talking about. So do you want to try to do your sex face and I can comment on it. Okay.
  • [45:21] Mike: Right? We are I hear you do do you? Well given that information. Do you think you could do it if you needed to like in the mirror later.
  • [45:34] Keith: Um, yeah, ah yeah, yes.
  • [45:36] Mike: Do you think you look the same as clothes. Do you think when you're doing that. Do you look closer to the way you look when you're angry or happy. That's what I think too? Yeah, so.
  • [45:44] Keith: Probably angry. Yeah, that's some kind of like intense focus. And yeah, it's not. It's not. It's not kind.
  • [45:55] Mike: Right? So easy. So just looking. So for example, if you just had a guy and all you could see was his face like imagine a beautiful agony. But for the man giving the sex face and you just hear like a slapping sound. You wouldn't know if he was.
  • [46:05] Keith: M.
  • [46:12] Mike: You know, penetrating her deeply in the dog or just giving her spanking or a whipping whipping her with a for Scythia switch right? I just thought that was a funny thing to say it. This is the thing is like is like okay.
  • [46:18] Keith: Right.
  • [46:29] Mike: If you if you had if the the face of a man delivering a beating and the face of a man delivering laying pipe as it were is the same face more or less. You know. So maybe it's maybe maybe what the woman's looking for there is like a man that will discipline their future children properly right? He's got.
  • [46:36] Keith: Yeah I think that's right.
  • [46:46] Mike: Has the right look if you're just too nice or too like kind of you know fuddy-dudddy.
  • [46:49] Keith: Um, yeah I mean I don't know why I don't know why they want that. But yeah I mean I was thinking about the face you make when you're like interacting with a with a three year old right? like you're just trying to seem kind and safe and open and you know.
  • [47:01] Mike: Oh that's not a good phase.
  • [47:04] Keith: You know you sort of like exaggerate the the smile and stuff and then there's the face you make when like I don't know. Maybe you're going to have to you know you're angry at the hotel you're staying at and you're going to go have words with the manager at the front desk and you're pissed off about something.
  • [47:23] Mike: Right? Yeah well the other thing I thought of is um, there's a there is a strain or a thread that you'll see on female oriented subreddits of women talking about. You know it's basically well I actually asked.
  • [47:23] Keith: Yeah I think I think it's much closer to that latter thing than the former.
  • [47:40] Mike: I don't know did I bring this up last week the thing about um the female equivalent of a dick or what women want instead of a dick pic. Did I say that I probably did that women want a a come punshot video with ah with the sound on and Allie agreed she said yes, that's what I what we want.
  • [47:47] Keith: I don't I don't remember yet. Maybe oh yeah, yeah yeah, remember.
  • [47:57] Mike: So I mean actually if I I could ask Alie later if we can give out her email address so men could give her comeshot videos with a sound on I think she said she wanted it to know the guy but maybe we could negotiate on that anyway. Ah similarly to that. Ah yeah to let me get you. She could use a.
  • [48:12] Keith: Rip her inbox.
  • [48:17] Keith: That sure sure.
  • [48:17] Mike: Proton Mail or whatever some fake high-end service. Ah but okay, hang On. So So ah, similar to that. There's a fair amount of content or female or oriented content where women will talk about how turned on they get by a man fixing something a man fixing an engine or the sink or. Kind of doing something seriously and when I've seen that I've always thought oh that's the same kind of ah behavior they want him to have toward her body. It's like he's he's now doing that to her body and I think that's right like guys get very serious about the sex act right? It's like no.
  • [48:40] Keith: How interesting.
  • [48:50] Keith: Well maybe I mean you could imagine you know when you're doing something competently you're you're focused on it and because you're competent at it. You know the the look makes sense and it seems appropriate if you're doing something incompetently. You might.
  • [48:53] Mike: Here now I'm going to do my thing. Um, right.
  • [49:07] Keith: Especially if it's sex. You might have sort of like a shitty and Grin on your face and look sort of confused about what you should do next I mean that is obviously not compelling and so maybe that's what she was complaining about.
  • [49:16] Mike: Right? Yeah I mean you know she wants. It's It's like the difference in porn between a man sort of sternly saying time for you to open your mouth stick out your tongue or whatever and just kind of giggling or something I mean they want to be told what to do in a serious way.
  • [49:30] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [49:34] Mike: Think that's what's going on here. He's just not masculine enough for her. So it's a very negative signal I think maybe he's also bisexual.
  • [49:40] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [49:47] Keith: Who knows I'm trying to think about if anything in his writing here seems immature I mean he did start a couple sentences with L O L and he misused literally. So he's young. Ah.
  • [49:57] Mike: How did you misuse literally.
  • [50:05] Keith: Actually this is not a bad. This is not a misuse of literally he said I got the picture literally. It's It's even mildly amusing. Yeah, um.
  • [50:05] Mike: All right? okay. Yeah, actually it's kind of a clever Usage. He's saying he? Yeah yeah, That's right, it was because it was a literal picture and that maybe the yellow ls are rough? Yeah yeah, no I mean I think that.
  • [50:21] Keith: All right? Well then maybe he is competent and and our whole theory is off Mike they are rough people say l o l now instead of emojis.
  • [50:31] Mike: I Think this kind of this kind of signaling from a woman is something to pay attention to because I'm sure she's right? you know that she's she's she's actually doing a good job looking at her subconscious and seeing what's there she realizes that you know much like the woman who wanted the perfect penis that's now been destroyed this woman wants the.
  • [50:44] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah I mean look yeah I have my doubts about ah how many young women actually want to have a series of casual sexual encounters.
  • [50:50] Mike: This the right face.
  • [51:01] Keith: But to the extent that some women do they should absolutely just cull the herd as much as possible I mean if they want to be like Seinfeld and dismiss people for having weird shaped hands or for looking different in different light or for having names they can't remember or whatever it might be. Ah, they may as well because they have like an infinite supply and so you know if you think a guy has a weird sex base cut him loose could be.
  • [51:26] Mike: But I actually think it's like a meaningful say it could potentially be a reasonable signal because yeah, she wants that she wants a guy who's got a some sort of hard edge a bit and that actually I think is probably adaptive. Yeah.
  • [51:38] Keith: Right? Yeah, maybe she's letting them down easily. Okay I wanted to read this one. This is from the sugar lifestyle forum. So I think this is written by a sugar daddy talking about a sugar baby all right second date right? thing to do question Mark. Background I met a beautiful smart young lady and I really like her ah meet and greet went great and first date afterward was wonderful. Okay, so for those unfamiliar with the parlance meet and greet is the first time you meet a potential sugar baby usually money gets discussed. And the first date. Ah very few sugar daddy sugar baby relationships don't involve sex extremely early. So first date going wonderfully strongly implies. He probably took her out to dinner maybe to a show and then they went back and had sex.
  • [52:22] Mike: Right.
  • [52:29] Mike: Nice.
  • [52:31] Keith: He continues. We both express interest in a consistent sugar relationship but agreed that the first few dates would be on a ppm this means pay per meet so instead of just giving her some fixed amount monthly. He's going to pay her every time he sees her. We also express possibly to become exclusive down the road but are open about still being on seeking arrangement And other words we're at the very early stages. She'll have to leave the area in July so that so that is the max potential for our shorter relationship. We scheduled a date this week but she is on her period and told me in advance. We then agreed to meet anyway over a coffee with the idea to meet again in a few days let let's put a pin in that period thing. Coffee would likely be quick just to say hi and meet again in a few days I feel like it would be appropriate to give a gift but also don't think it would be appropriate to give full ppm for a short coffee meetup I would really appreciate feedback from you guys. Thanks and some people suggest things like. An anti pms kit or a chocolate bubble bath candles I keep I can't imagine like let's say you're dating a sixty year old dude you're 24 you have your period he says he's like. Not really interested in seeing you because you're menistry but he's like ok well you know maybe we could meet for coffee and then he shows up with like an anti p m s kit like I the I think that would be.
  • [53:51] Mike: Um.
  • [53:59] Mike: It's interesting to think about what the incentives are here and who was the person that proposed the coffee date was it her or him unclear.
  • [54:04] Keith: I scheduled a date this week but she's on her period and told me to advance we then agreed to we then agreed to meet anyway over coffee.
  • [54:11] Mike: Okay, it's important to me who pushed for it I mean if she pushed for it I've got to think it's about money if he pushed for it then it's Ambiguous. It's what's not about money I mean he's just trying to it's I would say it's much more of just a hey, let's like get to know each other better which I think I don't actually think the woman would expect money. And that situation I mean part of the I think that part of the kind of deal in these sugar daddy sugar baby situations is that she wants to just get a little bit comfortable with the guy I mean she's He's obviously going to have to pay for the date meaning buy the coffee etc. But.
  • [54:42] Keith: And the chocolate chip cookie or whatever. Yeah.
  • [54:45] Mike: Yeah, but I think it's pretty normal in these situations that everybody knows what the ppm is for like that's not confusing.
  • [54:52] Keith: If you are infinitely wealthy which often in these sugar daddy situations they effectively are compared to the girl right? like she? okay.
  • [55:01] Mike: I Don't think it's often I think that off I think yeah, but but I know what you mean you mean that like that's certainly possible and that's a thing that comes that happens. Yes, yeah, right.
  • [55:08] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right? So let's say this guy is not trying to save money. He's just trying to like maximize his options 1 1 argument might be that he should just pay her. You know he should just be as generous as he can and real her in that way. Counter argument to that would be that she'll just basically see him as an atm and any chance of developing serious feelings or putting in much effort sort of fades away if you are too. Aggressive with the money early I don't actually know yeah go ahead.
  • [55:45] Mike: Yeah, from having read the form a fair amount. Ah, all the the reality is that this kind of a question comes down to the guy having limited resources on some level and the reason I say that is because there's this whole terminology around it. They they call them rinsers.
  • [55:55] Keith: Right? I know I know yeah.
  • [56:02] Mike: Just like the the name for a dad a sugar daddy that does this is a salt daddy meaning somebody who like tries to get out of pay. Um, but a yeah, So so but what you?? Yeah yeah I mean your point and I know your point already would be well if you have that much money. Why do you care if a woman's a rinser I mean you know, not 100% of them will be and even if someone let's say you. Do this coffee data and you pay her money and she disappears like she may well come back like it doesn't actually if if you have unlimited money or if you're not really worried about. Um if you're not really worried about the money side of it then why would you care?? Ah and yet yeah that so that winds up being the conversation for the guys.
  • [56:36] Keith: Right.
  • [56:41] Mike: So so effectively, no one has that perspective that I that I've really read where a guy just says oh I I don't care like I'll just pay and and I think to your point if a man really had no financial constraints. Yeah, he absolutely should just pay her the ppm for the coffee date because there's like more than a 50% probability that he's just going to engender. A lot of positive feelings and she's going to just be like this guy's awesome. Yeah, and if she does try to get out of like the actual physical part of the relationship. Well he can just break up with her I mean you know So what.
  • [57:00] Keith: Right? right? I mean.
  • [57:09] Keith: Right? exactly and you know he would have lost a little money maybe his like pride will be bothered a little bit that somebody took advantage of him like you have plenty of money and you sometimes find yourself in situations where. You get ripped off and it bothers you even though the money is completely inconsequential.
  • [57:29] Mike: That's true I mean I think I think you would have to I think Ah, however I think that if it were ah put in context in the way that I think you would in this situation. You'd say look there's ah, there's a rinser percentage but you're willing to take the risk I think you've made the argument because a common. Ah, discussion point on Cigarette Lifestyle Forum is that you should not pay for the meet in gra at all and you've made the comment that these guys probably should pay for the meetre just because and I think you're probably right if they have the money to do it because paying for the meet and greet while. Ah, admittedly, you will have some set of women that just disappear. Okay, ah, but you will up level.
  • [58:05] Keith: Right? Yeah I specific specifically the the the canonical advice is don't say you're going to give money on the meeting greet. But if you like them at the end.
  • [58:05] Mike: Quality of the women you have the meet and greets with a lot and all it takes is 1 or 2 a year.
  • [58:23] Keith: Give them some money and so that way I don't know I just feel like I mean it's tricky if I think because that's what the bods suggest to do and then yeah I'm not sure I mean that kind of makes sense right? like you you want people.
  • [58:23] Mike: Him. How did that advice become Canon. Oh is that right? Why you.
  • [58:42] Keith: To have some skin in the game themselves and you don't want to get quote unquote rinsed and so you get most of the if if you care about the money which as you point out most of these people do I mean the other thing is.
  • [58:51] Mike: Yes, I mean that's the truth.
  • [59:00] Keith: Yeah, like if you're a reasonable person that's like likable in any way you're paying to get yourself in front of them like if they if they if they're going to like you. They're going to like you. It's and if they're not, they're probably not but the money might pay paper over that It's hard to imagine.
  • [59:18] Mike: I don't Well I don't yeah I don't even think it's that I think it's simply that I agree completely with your statement that if they're going to like you. They're going to like you and so forth. It's not that I don't think it's that the money would paper it over I think it's that you um you I mean you have a lot of experience with this on seeking. Ah you you shoot out.
  • [59:19] Keith: Go ahead.
  • [59:34] Mike: 100 messages and um so whatever 50 of them respond or 30 whatever it is and then well of those 30 say you only have n dates. Whatever n is and if you offer to pay the n is higher and the thing is you just get more shots on goal then and.
  • [59:36] Keith: Um.
  • [59:47] Keith: Right? yeah.
  • [59:53] Mike: And I feel very confident that the one the extra ones you get on average will be higher quality than the ones you didn't get on average some of them will be rinsers. But.
  • [01:00:01] Keith: I I I think your math is right? there. There might be a person who is cash sensitive and ah has tons of time that they might want to do. Like a zillion first dates to try to find someone but yeah, that just seems like a bad strategy I know.
  • [01:00:21] Mike: That's not what's going on here. That's not what that's not what what's going on This is just simply this is simply guys that don't actually have that much money and they're they're frustrated and also in in the and the real thing and you're right that like I could imagine getting upset if if I got rinsed I understand that ah but they're not that the issue is.
  • [01:00:27] Keith: Um, right.
  • [01:00:37] Mike: They're not able to ah think about it a lot philosophically if you look if you got rinse 10 times in a row. Okay, maybe maybe we're wrong then but I don't I haven't encountered that before right.
  • [01:00:44] Keith: Yeah I don't think that's likely and it would be a good exercise to try not to get frustrated by it anyway, just be like look this is a cost of doing business I'm saving time in the long run here and I'm improving my stuff all right? So yeah, so that's a wrap on episode 96
  • [01:00:53] Mike: Um, yeah, yeah, it's basically marketing right.
  • [01:01:02] Mike: Yes.
  • [01:01:04] Keith: Your mileage may vary ah we like getting feedback you can give us feedback at y mmvpod at Gmail.com or on Twitter at ymm the pod we pay $10 for all feedback received so let us know how you'd like to be paid paypal venmo cash up. Whatever. Can also ask us questions there and we can answer them on the show or not if you say you don't want us to answer them on the show. Thanks to Mike for his time. Thanks for giving us a listen and we hope to catch you next week on your mileage may vary.